Rex Posted April 17, 2022 Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) I couldn't mix words in with the pictures for some reason. Anyway, I know it's a lot to ask, but those would be cool if at all possible ... someday. Edited April 17, 2022 by Rex 3 Rex's Rig Intel i9-14900K | Nvidia RTX 4090 | 64GB DDR5 | 3x4TB 990 Pro M2 SSDs | HP Reverb 2 | 49" Samsung 5120x1440 @ 120Mhz TM Warthog Stick + Throttle | TM Pendulum Pedals | MS Sidewinder 2 FFB | Track IR | Cougar MFD x 2
Mike Force Team Posted April 17, 2022 Posted April 17, 2022 Yes, please add the mach cone and ultra-low-altitude water effects. In the Top Gun 2: Maverick, there is a scene in a movie trailer where Tom Cruise flies over a guard shack near a military base and the people experience the "whoosh" from the F/A-18 flying by. The water effects would be great to see when flying at 100 feet above the ocean going supersonic. MFT 2
cfrag Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) Hmmm. Not to be picky, but that first image is not a "Mach Cone". That image depicts condensation forming when the local pressure (and therefore temperature) drops due to wing dynamics in humid air. A "Mach Cone" is a (conical) pressure wave-front that exists the entire time that a body moves through air/gas with supersonic speed. I seem to dimly remember that I've seen some condensation effects modelled on the Bug, so it may be in the game already. IIRC low-alt water effect is already present in DCS, will have to check. Edited April 18, 2022 by cfrag
Mike Force Team Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 The ultra-low water effects would also look great when following subsonic anti-ship missles while flying towards their intended targets. MFT
Tank50us Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 10 hours ago, Mike Force Team said: The ultra-low water effects would also look great when following subsonic anti-ship missles while flying towards their intended targets. MFT Except they're so small they produce almost no cone at all, so odds are they'd still be hard to see
G.J.S Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 You don’t always get a condensation ‘flash’ when passing Mach, it’s very dependant on the right set of atmospheric conditions being present. And the water disturbance created at low level - may look impressive, but all you are doing is shouting at the enemy “AIM HERE!”. 1 - - - The only real mystery in life is just why kamikaze pilots wore helmets? - - -
draconus Posted April 19, 2022 Posted April 19, 2022 On 4/18/2022 at 1:01 PM, cfrag said: low-alt water effect is already present in DCS Yes, it is. Above the ground too. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Quest 3 T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria
Mike Force Team Posted April 19, 2022 Posted April 19, 2022 @Mike_Romeo I wanted the sonic cone to appear behind the jet when flying above the ocean at low altitudes. Thanks for showing the sonic cone on the JF-17. MFT 1
Rex Posted April 28, 2022 Author Posted April 28, 2022 On 4/19/2022 at 4:19 AM, draconus said: Yes, it is. Above the ground too. I've never seen this in the F/A-18, and I've gone pretty low, which planes have you observed it with? Rex's Rig Intel i9-14900K | Nvidia RTX 4090 | 64GB DDR5 | 3x4TB 990 Pro M2 SSDs | HP Reverb 2 | 49" Samsung 5120x1440 @ 120Mhz TM Warthog Stick + Throttle | TM Pendulum Pedals | MS Sidewinder 2 FFB | Track IR | Cougar MFD x 2
Rex Posted April 28, 2022 Author Posted April 28, 2022 (edited) On 4/18/2022 at 4:01 AM, cfrag said: Hmmm. Not to be picky, but that first image is not a "Mach Cone". That image depicts condensation forming when the local pressure (and therefore temperature) drops due to wing dynamics in humid air. A "Mach Cone" is a (conical) pressure wave-front that exists the entire time that a body moves through air/gas with supersonic speed. I seem to dimly remember that I've seen some condensation effects modelled on the Bug, so it may be in the game already. IIRC low-alt water effect is already present in DCS, will have to check. Fair enough, I've heard it called all manner of things, and I was using the colloquial term I've heard for it, I kind of figured it wasn't the strictly-technical one ... which why I posted a photo. That said, I feel like I've only seen that form in the transonic region and higher. Are you saying that the "cone" is present even when the condensation is not, and can occur at any speed? What would you call the phenomenon that's pictured? Is the condensation in the mach cone? Edited April 28, 2022 by Rex Rex's Rig Intel i9-14900K | Nvidia RTX 4090 | 64GB DDR5 | 3x4TB 990 Pro M2 SSDs | HP Reverb 2 | 49" Samsung 5120x1440 @ 120Mhz TM Warthog Stick + Throttle | TM Pendulum Pedals | MS Sidewinder 2 FFB | Track IR | Cougar MFD x 2
cfrag Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, Rex said: Are you saying that the "cone" is present even when the condensation is not, Yes. And Google is your friend.
draconus Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Rex said: I've never seen this in the F/A-18, and I've gone pretty low, which planes have you observed it with? Done it in the 14 and 15 but it should be for all aircraft. You have to get reaaaly low, like 3 ft or so, not sustainable safely - partly because you're flying in external view to see it. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Quest 3 T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria
Wrcknbckr Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 On 4/18/2022 at 1:01 PM, cfrag said: Hmmm. Not to be picky, but that first image is not a "Mach Cone". That image depicts condensation forming when the local pressure (and therefore temperature) drops due to wing dynamics in humid air. A "Mach Cone" is a (conical) pressure wave-front that exists the entire time that a body moves through air/gas with supersonic speed. I seem to dimly remember that I've seen some condensation effects modelled on the Bug, so it may be in the game already. IIRC low-alt water effect is already present in DCS, will have to check. Well, in essence it is still a Mach cone, just smaller and local. Even when flying subsonic there are local areas of supersonic speed (due to airfoil curvature) that end in a shock, with the phenomena that you described so well. That's what defines the transonic speed region; if anywhere on the aircraft you find supersonic speeds while still flying subsonic. 1
Rex Posted April 30, 2022 Author Posted April 30, 2022 On 4/27/2022 at 11:07 PM, draconus said: Done it in the 14 and 15 but it should be for all aircraft. You have to get reaaaly low, like 3 ft or so, not sustainable safely - partly because you're flying in external view to see it. Cool, will give it a try, thanks for the heads up. On 4/27/2022 at 10:24 PM, cfrag said: Yes. And Google is your friend. Certainly not the same Google that returns the attached as the first image for the term "Mach Cone"? No, they're not MY friend at all. Rex's Rig Intel i9-14900K | Nvidia RTX 4090 | 64GB DDR5 | 3x4TB 990 Pro M2 SSDs | HP Reverb 2 | 49" Samsung 5120x1440 @ 120Mhz TM Warthog Stick + Throttle | TM Pendulum Pedals | MS Sidewinder 2 FFB | Track IR | Cougar MFD x 2
cfrag Posted April 30, 2022 Posted April 30, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Rex said: Certainly not the same Google that returns the attached as the first image for the term "Mach Cone"? No, they're not MY friend at all. Yes - while Google is your friend for finding content, much of that content isn't. Corroborate it with other sources before accepting it, especially if it seems to agree with your preconceived notions. If you google images for 'viking helmet', you may come to the conclusion that Vikings in combat of the days predominantly used helmets with horns attached. They didn't. Don't trust the results. So yes, my apologies for not adding '... and distrust the results'; The internet can't be trusted. Let's look at it positively: it's a good thing that you found this out on a benign topic. Imagine if you went down the rabbit hole with one of the standard, highly dangerous internet traps: anti-vaxxers, 9/11 truthers, QAnon, JFK assasination, moon landings, flat earth, religions. You got lucky Edited April 30, 2022 by cfrag 1
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