fixed Rocket burst length incorrect behaviour when using 4 rocket pods

[NumberTwo]

First of all thanks to ED for their work in the Mi-24, which is probably mt favorite module in DCS.

I was testing some weapon loadouts when I noticed some strange behavior with some rocket configurations.

When using 2 rocket pods everything works as expected, in short burst length 4 rockets are fired from each pod, 8 in medium and 16 in long, but with 4 rocket pods weird things happen.

For the test I used TacView as it counts exactly how many rockets are fired in each salvo. I spawned a Mi-24 player in air and when in cockpit, I set the sight to AUTO and SYNC and the ranging mode to AUTO, then selected the burst length and then pressed the arm launchers button until the lights turn on.

When using 2 rocket pods the behavior seems correct (I am showing the bahavior with S-5 rockets, but the same happens when using S-8KOMs):

But when using 4 rocket pods this happens:

 

In short burst length the helicopter fires 8 burst of 14 rockets (should be 16) and then fires the 16 remaining rockets in pairs. In medium it fires 4 bursts of 26 rockets (should be 32) and then starts firing in pairs or 4 rockets bursts. In long burst it fires 2 burst of 54 rockets (should be 64) and then starts firing in burst from 2 to 6 rockets).

Similar things happen when using 4 S-8KOM pods. I don’t know how it behaves in real life but I’m pretty sure this is not the intended behavior. I’ve attached the TacView files for the S-5 tests.

Thanks for reading and thanks to ED for their amazing work!

4xS-5Long.acmi 4xS-5Med.acmi 4xS-5Short.acmi 2xS-5Long.acmi 2xS-5Med.acmi 2xS-5Short.acmi

[AeriaGloria]

12 hours ago, NumberTwo said:

First of all thanks to ED for their work in the Mi-24, which is probably mt favorite module in DCS.

I was testing some weapon loadouts when I noticed some strange behavior with some rocket configurations.

When using 2 rocket pods everything works as expected, in short burst length 4 rockets are fired from each pod, 8 in medium and 16 in long, but with 4 rocket pods weird things happen.

For the test I used TacView as it counts exactly how many rockets are fired in each salvo. I spawned a Mi-24 player in air and when in cockpit, I set the sight to AUTO and SYNC and the ranging mode to AUTO, then selected the burst length and then pressed the arm launchers button until the lights turn on.

When using 2 rocket pods the behavior seems correct (I am showing the bahavior with S-5 rockets, but the same happens when using S-8KOMs):

But when using 4 rocket pods this happens:

 

In short burst length the helicopter fires 8 burst of 14 rockets (should be 16) and then fires the 16 remaining rockets in pairs. In medium it fires 4 bursts of 26 rockets (should be 32) and then starts firing in pairs or 4 rockets bursts. In long burst it fires 2 burst of 54 rockets (should be 64) and then starts firing in burst from 2 to 6 rockets).

Similar things happen when using 4 S-8KOM pods. I don’t know how it behaves in real life but I’m pretty sure this is not the intended behavior. I’ve attached the TacView files for the S-5 tests.

Thanks for reading and thanks to ED for their amazing work!

4xS-5Long.acmi 81.4 kB · 0 downloads 4xS-5Med.acmi 108.81 kB · 0 downloads 4xS-5Short.acmi 119.27 kB · 0 downloads 2xS-5Long.acmi 62.83 kB · 0 downloads 2xS-5Med.acmi 59.23 kB · 0 downloads 2xS-5Short.acmi 79.66 kB · 0 downloads

This is what their Russian quick start guide translated to english says, and has not been consistent with the module, however I have not used S-8 in a few months so I cannot say for certain. This lines up with what I have read in Mi-24V manuals. It seemed to me when I used S-8, that number of rockets fired in salvos is identical for UB-32 S-5 pods and B8V20A S-8 pods 

Edited May 23, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[NumberTwo]

5 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

This is what their Russian quick start guide translated to english says, and has not been consistent with the module, however I have not used S-8 in a few months so I cannot say for certain. This lines up with what I have read in Mi-24V manuals. It seemed to me when I used S-8, that number of rockets fired in salvos is identical for UB-32 S-5 pods and B8V20A S-8 pods 

 

I thougth that was normal, I can confirm S-8 rockets (when using 2 pods) fire 4, 8 and 16 rockets respectively per pod, which means in long burst mode you fire one 16 rocket burst and then just 4, as there are no more rockets. So that's wrong too.

I haven't tested S-13s or S-24, but implementation is currently under development, so not as important I guess.

[AeriaGloria]

25 minutes ago, NumberTwo said:

I thougth that was normal, I can confirm S-8 rockets (when using 2 pods) fire 4, 8 and 16 rockets respectively per pod, which means in long burst mode you fire one 16 rocket burst and then just 4, as there are no more rockets. So that's wrong too.

I haven't tested S-13s or S-24, but implementation is currently under development, so not as important I guess.

[Wish I could delete misunderstood]
 

S-13/24 implementation is complete. Have been since launch 

If you are referring to them not working with auto CCIP, that is true to life. They do not and always require manual ranging. They were both Afghan war modifications. Even S-8 rockets did not have auto CCIP during Afghan war, I think CCIP for S-8 wasn’t added to Mi-24V/P/VP fleet until Chechnya war

It’s likely not an easily updated system 

Edited May 23, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[NumberTwo]

2 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

[Wish I could delete misunderstood]
 

S-13/24 implementation is complete. Have been since launch 

If you are referring to them not working with auto CCIP, that is true to life. They do not and always require manual ranging. They were both Afghan war modifications. Even S-8 rockets did not have auto CCIP during Afghan war, I think CCIP for S-8 wasn’t added to Mi-24V/P/VP fleet until Chechnya war

It’s likely not an easily updated system 

 

Oh! I thought they were just not implemented in early acces, this evening i'll test them too.

[AeriaGloria]

13 minutes ago, NumberTwo said:

Oh! I thought they were just not implemented in early acces, this evening i'll test them too.

If you ask me or read my weapons guide I have all the aiming tables you could possibly want the Russian quick start guide and it’s English translation on user files has tables also, but I prefer my custom made ones, as they take into account the negative AOA needed at 300 kmh. And I pretty much just fire at that one speed, the regular stock 250 kmh tables in the manual  (which you will be forced to use at higher altitudes and temperatures) work pretty well. But for some reason the 300 kmh expect your nose to be nearly level and then there’s the fact that these tables also sometimes say they are 0-10degrees, and work better for some angles then others. Find out what profile works the best for you, and fire in active pause 

Mine are for 300 kmh, 300m altitude for S-24 and 250m for S-13, and for firing at max range light turning on at 2.2 km for sake of simplicity and that being a good middle ground (you can still use the auto ranging with them). That way I am exposed to fire the least while still having pretty good accuracy. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[some1]

Rocket salvos are still messed up here. Tried the default payload with 4x UB32 pods, and instead of 4 salvos of 4x8 rockets (32), that's what I got:

There's also at least one zero length salvo in there, meaning that no rockets leave the pod when you press the button, but they will launch with the next press.

Different positions of salvo switch give different results, but none of them matches the numbers from the manual.

mi24salvo.trk

Edited October 9, 2024 by some1

[Raffi75]

3 hours ago, some1 said:

Rocket salvos are still messed up here. Tried the default payload with 4x UB32 pods, and instead of 4 salvos of 4x8 rockets (32), that's what I got:

There's also at least one zero length salvo in there, meaning that no rockets leave the pod when you press the button, but they will launch with the next press.

Different positions of salvo switch give different results, but none of them matches the numbers from the manual.

mi24salvo.trk 946.8 kB · 0 downloads

 

In the "Training Methodology Part II - Armament" for the Mi-24 it is written about the switch: "Варианты стрельбы" "ПО 16 - ПО 32 - ПО 64". I had a problem that the salvo was too short and I couldn't fire one big one. I had to switch the AZS several times until it finally clicked and worked. I'll take a look at it out of curiosity.

[Raffi75]

On 10/9/2024 at 8:01 PM, some1 said:

Rocket salvos are still messed up here. Tried the default payload with 4x UB32 pods, and instead of 4 salvos of 4x8 rockets (32), that's what I got:

There's also at least one zero length salvo in there, meaning that no rockets leave the pod when you press the button, but they will launch with the next press.

Different positions of salvo switch give different results, but none of them matches the numbers from the manual.

mi24salvo.trk 946.8 kB · 0 downloads

 

I found some free time and played around too. For me it looks like this .
Long series:

Medium series:

Short series:

It is a bit different from the instructions and dividing the number of rockets into equal salvos.

[f-18hornet]

Thank you, reported for internal analysis.

[Raffi75]

@f-18hornetWill the upcoming patch fix the rocket burst length issue? The two rocket launchers are also malfunctioning.

[Raffi75]

@f-18hornet@BIGNEWY

Unfortunately, the patch did not fix the bug. It is better, it is improved, but not fixed. There is still a bug with the first and last salvo. This applies to both types of rockets, S-5 and S-8. The only thing that works correctly is the Medium-length salvo on the S-8.

In order: S-8 long, medium, short - four containers and two containers. Below, similarly, S-5.

Another thing that came out is the ability to fire a shot after turning off the weapon's power.

 

In each variant, before firing the penultimate salvo, the "launcher armed" lights come on.

Edited December 5, 2024 by Raffi75

[f-18hornet]

Hi @Raffi75, can you please provide tracks?

[Raffi75]

@f-18hornet Here you go

4xS-5_test.trk

[K-dot-B]

9 hours ago, Raffi75 said:

Unfortunately, the patch did not fix the bug.

I tried it and for me both S-5s and S-8s work just fine, so the issue is indeed fixed.

Did you "arm" the launchers before shooting? I watched your track, you forgot to "arm" the launchers before shooting. (Arming is very misleading, from what I gathered pressing the button simply resets the rotary contactors that control the sequencing of rockets, so a better name would be "reset launchers". The indicators light up if the contactors are at their initial position.)

However, I found that the "arm launchers" behaviour seems super bugged now. It works fine when used in a fresh spawn helicopter, but after using the weapons for the first time pressing the button again will launch every rocket from the pods, even if the master arm, weapon selector and the main weapon switch group in the front cockpit is disabled! Maybe it's just double binds for me, I'll investigate some more and create a new thread if needed.

Edited December 5, 2024 by K-dot-B

[Raffi75]

2 hours ago, K-dot-B said:

I tried it and for me both S-5s and S-8s work just fine, so the issue is indeed fixed.

I did everything from the beginning. I asked Petrovitch to turn on the weapons. I turned on the weapons system on my side. Petrovitch confirmed readiness and only now did I press the launcher arm. The indicator lights lit up. And only now did it work properly. Every salvo was correct. A trifle, but how much it changes. Thank you for the tip. 

[K-dot-B]

55 minutes ago, Raffi75 said:

Thank you for the tip.

No problem, I'm glad it works now!

The launcher arming should work right after Petrovich starts turning on weapons (as soon as the pylon indicators light up, if you have them enabled), you don't even have to wait for the ready message.

[Raffi75]

6 hours ago, K-dot-B said:

No problem, I'm glad it works now!

The launcher arming should work right after Petrovich starts turning on weapons (as soon as the pylon indicators light up, if you have them enabled), you don't even have to wait for the ready message.

I waited for Petrovitch to confirm readiness because I had previously held the launcher arm too short and the indicator lights had not lit up. I thought it was related. Only later did I notice that you have to hold the button for about two seconds.

[K-dot-B]

Yeah, it's definitely not obvious at first. Hopefully these things will be better explained in the new manual.

[Flappie]

This issue was fixed with the latest update.