Jump to content

LD-10 now useless, bug or feature ?


Harke

Recommended Posts

  • 2 weeks later...

ld-10 switched to new scheme per ED's suggestion.

the drag seems to be larger as expected, although the fm param is identical to sd-10.

will check with ED

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

My DCS Mods, Skins, Utilities and Scripts

 

| Windows 10 | i7-4790K | GTX 980Ti Hybrid | 32GB RAM | 3TB SSD |

| TM Warthog Stick | CH Pro Throttle + Pro Pedal | TIR5 Pro | TM MFD Cougar | Gun Camera: PrtScn |

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/28/2022 at 2:02 PM, Harke said:

LD-10 now useless

they don't hit targets and now suffer from high drag level , not sure if this is a bug or a feature

dcs release 2.7.14.24228

 

what.trk 854.85 kB · 1 download dcs.log 192.28 kB · 1 download debrief.log 3.96 kB · 1 download

 

  

Before the LD-10, which is the same body as the SD-10 and almost certainly the same motor, was significantly overperformaing:
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2022/6/7 AM6点26分,nighthawk2174说:

  

Before the LD-10, which is the same body as the SD-10 and almost certainly the same motor, was significantly overperformaing:
 

 

The figure you post shows even no double-thrust for LD-10 and not only drag. So I suspect that the present LD-10 simulation is limited by some other factors, for example, maybe some DCS limits to anything classified as AG missiles.

  • Like 1

Human allowed, demon allowed, Deka never allowed.

Distort allowed, provoke allowed, fight back never allowed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be more specific:

Effective range when launched at 30000 feet: ca. 20 nm
Missiles launched at 30000 feet at a distance of 25.4 nm (47 km) didn't reach the target. When launched from this range they act more like TIALDS just soaking the missiles out of SAMs since they are also very slow then. But the ones not reaching the target were not shot down, just to avoid misunderstandings.

Btw. launched from 30000 feet the range of the GB-6 is higher than that of the LD-10...

One reason for the lower range is that the missiles don't loft anymore. I think before the change they behaved like an AGM-88.


Edited by Lynnux
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just realised that missle became ussless crap tbh. I could nicely take down sam sites, but not anymore. I would for sure get shot down way before I can get even close to range of anything..even crappy old BUk. This needs to be fixed.

I found this article:

https://codex.uoaf.net/index.php/JF-17_-_LD-10_Anti-Radiation_Missile

says it should have 10-20nm range even if it is launched from 10000 ft, 40-50 when launched from 40000. I nowdays due to this only use SFW's (untill this also get messed up). I would like to know why?

My usual launch altitude is about 35000 ft in PAS mode and It falls usualy at about 25 nm More or less with out locking anything, or maybe it cant reach lock. Speed is also dropping like mad althouh real missle is much more capable than what we got.

 


Edited by Aries101
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i would add trk file, but it has 45 mb. Anyway. I was shooting from 40000 ft. I need not to say that none of missle hit anything. I shoot first from about 38 nm, 2 from 30 nm and last two below 25 nm. All missed, and fell short of any radar they targeted. As we all know, that SEAD was for most of us one of jeff best features, this plane is almost ruined now. I mean in A-A it is lacking at best (especialy with my skils), and I only got left with laser guided rockets and almost always misssing anti ship missle.  I will stop since it looks like I am entering rant mode.  

dcs.log

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, so that you don't say that I did not help. Here is situation. I amanged barely to squeze trk file in a zip so it can be uploaded along with log. I started hot from runday to speed things up (tried from air but it looks like game did nup updated DTC). I climbed to 30000 ft. and fired first missle from 30 nm away in PAS mode, failed miserably way before site. 2nd missle at 25 nm if I remeber well, got closet but still failed and then I did last two one in SP mode and one in PAs again, none nit and all failed short as always last one I fired fell like just infront of missle site. SOmething is waay of. This is not normal. 

dcs.log tempMission.miz.trk.zip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/6/2022 at 3:26 PM, nighthawk2174 said:

Before the LD-10, which is the same body as the SD-10 and almost certainly the same motor, was significantly overperformaing

I don't think so, the LD-10 would not need a large battery like the SD-10 has, because it is not actively shooting radar waves at anything. If it does, then if the battery is the same size, the LD-10 would last a lot longer (lifetime variable) and that doesn't seem to be the case. Perhaps it has more explosive? idk. LD-10 is rumored to have a warhead of 20kg, and the AGM-88 harm 66kg, but in the dcs datamine it shows 26.4 for harm and 20 for ld-10, which I believe as DCS uses the number, that refers to the TNT equivalent weight, which would surely be more for both missiles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

per our sme, display board of ld10 says it's a short range one (he cannot find the display board pic at this moment)


Edited by uboats

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

My DCS Mods, Skins, Utilities and Scripts

 

| Windows 10 | i7-4790K | GTX 980Ti Hybrid | 32GB RAM | 3TB SSD |

| TM Warthog Stick | CH Pro Throttle + Pro Pedal | TIR5 Pro | TM MFD Cougar | Gun Camera: PrtScn |

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is quick report to give you some perspective. I tested this on similar mission to one I posted above on SA-2 site.

 I went and tried that "alternative" sead mission with GB6 SFW GPS guided cluster munitions. I climbed at 39000 ft which was well ceiling due to heavy weapons, shot both missles to two independet targets from 40 nm well out of SA-2 site range and wreacked havock on it. Nothing survived, 2 radars, 5 missle trucks and support veichles. And all that I watched from safe distance. 

I must also point that In classic LD-10 ( i did one more) and went to 20 nm and shot last LD-10 today in SP mode ( I got shot with several missles by that point) just to test will it hit target at all..and well it did not. So, it it is not only range issue, it is also targeting issue aswell. Anways, for now I got myself "new" sead munitions at least.

 


Edited by Aries101
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I have experienced the same problem . these days those LD -10s become very unreliable .  I find the SP mode mostly hit nothing whereas the PAS mode hit about 40%-50% of the targets . Theoretically, if SAM keeps tracking your you fire a LD10 in SP mode the missile should be easily hit the SAM if the SAM dose not stop tracking .   This situation happened after recent 1 or 2  updates. The story was not like this last year . I used to use a lot of SP mode and it worked quite well .  Now have to give up the SP mode which used to be  my favorite way to say " Hello" to SAMs .

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, dock999 said:

I have experienced the same problem . these days those LD -10s become very unreliable .  I find the SP mode mostly hit nothing whereas the PAS mode hit about 40%-50% of the targets . Theoretically, if SAM keeps tracking your you fire a LD10 in SP mode the missile should be easily hit the SAM if the SAM dose not stop tracking .   This situation happened after recent 1 or 2  updates. The story was not like this last year . I used to use a lot of SP mode and it worked quite well .  Now have to give up the SP mode which used to be  my favorite way to say " Hello" to SAMs .

 

12 hours ago, Napillo said:

yeah, I have tried from all ranges and angles, nothing hits anymore.

Tracks would be appreciated, also valuable would be a quick answer to whether or not you were flying in multiplayer. 

 

Also I will assume no IADs scripts are being used unless told otherwise. 


Edited by ShadowFrost
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ShadowFrost said:

Tracks would be appreciated, also valuable would be a quick answer to whether or not you were flying in multiplayer. 

 

It's multiplayer, I couldn't provide a track - it's too big.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have taken a fairly in-depth look at the tracks and recreation on my own end in singleplayer. 

 

I would start by saying (for the original poster) you are firing on quite the limit of range for the weapon as it is currently. Lofting is important and you have done this. However, with both the HARM and the LD10 as they slow down they will not aggressively correct to keep on the proper intercept course and will fall short of their target with a margin of airspeed remaining. I will pass this aspect on but there may be reasons or limitations for this existing. Due to the nature of the LD10 vs the HARM and the HARM's comparative energy retention this "trait" is far more prevalent in the LD10 than the HARM. 

 

Adding to that, there is a marginal performance difference between the LD10 and SD10. It is worth approximately 1.5-2 miles on a 5,000ft ~mach .8 shot. So approximately 10-15% range difference. 

Why this exists may be down to a few reasons, the SD-10's level autopilot, the erratic G-behavior of the LD10 (it wobbles around at times), or another issue. 

 

The LD10 works currently but you must apply it in a way that it does not arrive to the target with a low energy state and fall below the "glideslope" of the target for effective employment. 

Otherwise than that, I will mention the aspects above to people who know more. 


Edited by ShadowFrost
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems LD-10 has always been marketed as having a 80 km max range. It is hard to find an official source, but there is multiple second hand sources claiming 80 km from marketing at Zuhai air show and 80 km claimed when marketed to Pakistan. http://defenseupdates.blogspot.com/2012/11/sd-10a-and-ld-10-missiles-at-zhuhai.html?m=1

Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com

E3FFFC01-584A-411C-8AFB-B02A23157EB6.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s quite hard to find reliable sources on the LD-10. But Im pretty sure uboats is on the right track with the short range.

It’s not a HARM produced by Raytheon with superb guidance electronics, rocket motor and a big warhead. So expecting a HARM like performance might be a bit too much. I might be wrong here, but maybe the LD-10 is more of self protective type weapon, more designed to deal with shorter ranged mobile threats?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The way it works seems to me to be closer to Sidearm on steroids rather than HARM.

Of course since it's based on a Fox 3 missile it has all the goodies like INS to increase its effectiveness, but still you can't really target it, just launch and hope for the best.

Still useful though


Edited by Dr_Pavelheer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

still you can't really target it

isn't that what active mode is for? like I select a ground target, and launch it, and it'll get to the target, or the nearest radar emitting source?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In case of HARM you can select particular emitter, for example if there is search and track radar you can pick which one do you want to target.

Active mode of LD-10 means just "go and look over there" which not always is enough.

SP mode is kind of a workaround because it will target the track radar that's locking you up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/15/2022 at 3:26 AM, uboats said:

per our sme, display board of ld10 says it's a short range one (he cannot find the display board pic at this moment)

 

Seems like most info on LD-10 and CM-102 comes from different Arms Shows trying to get them marketed, sold and exported. Same with the Norinco GB-6.
I love them as an addition on the DCS: JF-17 🙂 

But out of curiosity. Are these weapons in operational use in real life?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, ShadowFrost said:

I have taken a fairly in-depth look at the tracks and recreation on my own end in singleplayer. 

 

I would start by saying (for the original poster) you are firing on quite the limit of range for the weapon as it is currently. Lofting is important and you have done this. However, with both the HARM and the LD10 as they slow down they will not aggressively correct to keep on the proper intercept course and will fall short of their target with a margin of airspeed remaining. I will pass this aspect on but there may be reasons or limitations for this existing. Due to the nature of the LD10 vs the HARM and the HARM's comparative energy retention this "trait" is far more prevalent in the LD10 than the HARM. 

 

Adding to that, there is a marginal performance difference between the LD10 and SD10. It is worth approximately 1.5-2 miles on a 5,000ft ~mach .8 shot. So approximately 10-15% range difference. 

Why this exists may be down to a few reasons, the SD-10's level autopilot, the erratic G-behavior of the LD10 (it wobbles around at times), or another issue. 

 

The LD10 works currently but you must apply it in a way that it does not arrive to the target with a low energy state and fall below the "glideslope" of the target for effective employment. 

Otherwise than that, I will mention the aspects above to people who know more. 

 

Instead of requesting tracks if you are a real tester , you even can try the instant mission  SEAD under JF 17.   what I have been experiencing is  LD 10 with SP mode hit nothing even those sams sides have fired you a missile.  LD-10 should have hit those SAMs when they are tracking you.  Please do not advise " LD -10 is a short range  missile"   There is a difference between now and then in term of LD 10. LD -10 chosen in PAS mode works  better.

15 hours ago, ShadowFrost said:

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...