reported Perpetual Stall Back In Fashion

[icecold951]

AI pilots getting into perpetual stalls are back. This is really game breaking. After takeoff, the lead AI plane heads to WP 2, then turns around to head for WP 2, but refuses to level off and gain speed before climbing. Slowly goes into the drink.

1.trk

[NineLine]

Sorry the track isnt playing back correctly, I only see you go into the water. Are you running any mods?

[icecold951]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:36 PM, NineLine said:

Sorry the track isnt playing back correctly, I only see you go into the water. Are you running any mods?

Never got a notice this was seen and commented to. That isn't me. The mission has 1-1 as an AI flight lead, player as I think it was 1-3. No mods. Unless something odd happened, I viewed that track myself before submitting it. The AI keeps trying to climb at a very steep angle and won't lower the nose to get air speed.

Similarly, today in a mission, an AI flight got into a constant stall after turning to join up with a tanker. Both slowly crashed into the water.

[NineLine]

Yeah sorry I watched the attached track again and couldnt see an issue. If you can make a new one and let me know for sure which unit has the issue I can maybe catch it that way, thanks.

[icecold951]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

Yeah sorry I watched the attached track again and couldnt see an issue. If you can make a new one and let me know for sure which unit has the issue I can maybe catch it that way, thanks.

Good timing as I was just making a different one. This was a specific AI only refueling. 1 tanker, two AI planes. Both planes got into a perpetual stall and crashed. The first track was similar behavior after takeoff. Trying to climb too steeply and crashing. I am unsure why you can't see that.

1.trk

[NineLine]

Thanks, I will take a look soon.

[icecold951]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:34 PM, NineLine said:

Thanks, I will take a look soon.

Where you able to see it?

 

[Marmotflyer]

I have also been experiencing this. When an F18 AI attempts to form on a tanker, it throws out the airbrake until it stalls, and then maintains the stall all the way to the ground.

[84-Simba]

Happened two times in a row today when flying Dominant Fury M5 ... so it blocks the progression. You guys really need to do something about this !!

Edited July 5, 2022 by 84-Simba

[NineLine]

On 6/26/2022 at 6:42 PM, icecold951 said:

Where you able to see it?

 

SOrry I went on vacation and this got lost in the shuffle, will be taking a look shortly. 

[NineLine]

On 6/20/2022 at 4:16 PM, icecold951 said:

Good timing as I was just making a different one. This was a specific AI only refueling. 1 tanker, two AI planes. Both planes got into a perpetual stall and crashed. The first track was similar behavior after takeoff. Trying to climb too steeply and crashing. I am unsure why you can't see that.

1.trk 546.12 kB · 2 downloads

Have you rechecked this in the latest Open Beta, I believe this issue was recently fixed, anyways, for me in OB the track is fine, no stall.

[84-Simba]

No it's not fixed, as I just said ...

[Marmotflyer]

I'm on the newest open beta as well, and I'm still getting the stalling.

[icecold951]

22 hours ago, NineLine said:

Have you rechecked this in the latest Open Beta, I believe this issue was recently fixed, anyways, for me in OB the track is fine, no stall.

I"m not in open beta

But constantly I see the AI pulling to hard, trying to climb to hard. Unless you carefully arrange for them not to need to do so. I've also seen other AI acts, like a refusal to settle on a course after takeoff. They slalom back and fourth for a bit. But that isn't game breaking as AI stalling.

But specifically I am in the regular released version.

[NineLine]

22 hours ago, 84-Simba said:

No it's not fixed, as I just said ...

Where is your track, because the one I was given works fine.

17 hours ago, Marmotflyer said:

I'm on the newest open beta as well, and I'm still getting the stalling.

Track?

2 hours ago, icecold951 said:

I"m not in open beta

But constantly I see the AI pulling to hard, trying to climb to hard. Unless you carefully arrange for them not to need to do so. I've also seen other AI acts, like a refusal to settle on a course after takeoff. They slalom back and fourth for a bit. But that isn't game breaking as AI stalling.

But specifically I am in the regular released version.

The fix isnt in release yet, so could possible be it, unless there is something else going on, I would need a track to be sure. 

[patpatpowercat]

Definitely still happening. Just had 6/6 hornets put out speed brakes, go to 29 degrees AOA, 99% throttle, and then stall into the water when ordered via mission editor to perform task "refueling".

 

Well this time when capturing a track only 4/6 decided to commit suicide. But here is another track with issue, no mods.

refueling.trk

Edited July 6, 2022 by patpatpowercat
Update

[Marmotflyer]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

Where is your track, because the one I was given works fine.

Track?

The fix isnt in release yet, so could possible be it, unless there is something else going on, I would need a track to be sure. 

I'm away from my computer until Friday, but I can get something together then

[84-Simba]

As I said, try the Mission 5 of Dominant Fury campaign ; the wingman is acting like that right after his launch.

Tried 3 times in a row, even with a complete game restart between tries.

Just a question though :

You keep on asking for tracks. Are you suggesting a user input could induce this AI behaviour ?

[NineLine]

6 hours ago, patpatpowercat said:

Definitely still happening. Just had 6/6 hornets put out speed brakes, go to 29 degrees AOA, 99% throttle, and then stall into the water when ordered via mission editor to perform task "refueling".

 

Well this time when capturing a track only 4/6 decided to commit suicide. But here is another track with issue, no mods.

refueling.trk 4.8 MB · 1 download

 

Thanks! I will check it out.

10 minutes ago, 84-Simba said:

As I said, try the Mission 5 of Dominant Fury campaign ; the wingman is acting like that right after his launch.

Tried 3 times in a row, even with a complete game restart between tries.

Just a question though :

You keep on asking for tracks. Are you suggesting a user input could induce this AI behaviour ?

What I am saying is when you see it save a track. It makes it much easier than my trying to replicate it on my own, many times the slightest change can cause a bug to not reproduce right, not to mention I am always looking at many bug threads at any given time. 

[NineLine]

6 hours ago, patpatpowercat said:

Definitely still happening. Just had 6/6 hornets put out speed brakes, go to 29 degrees AOA, 99% throttle, and then stall into the water when ordered via mission editor to perform task "refueling".

 

Well this time when capturing a track only 4/6 decided to commit suicide. But here is another track with issue, no mods.

refueling.trk 4.8 MB · 1 download

 

Sadly I couldn't use this track, it has mods in it. Sorry.

[84-Simba]

The problem is that most of the time you'll end up saying that the track is too long.

What I found interesting in pointing you out to an official campaign mission is that we are sure we have the same test base.

I have no mods.

In this particular case the AI is doing this right after its cat-launch so very little margin for the user to do anything that would create the problem.

You spend a lot of time looking at bugs but we waste a lot of time being screwed up by bugs.

So maybe when someone is pointing you to something you could first try what he's saying (or acknowledge you actually did) before just ask for a track.

Thank you.

[NineLine]

5 minutes ago, 84-Simba said:

The problem is that most of the time you'll end up saying that the track is too long.

What I found interesting in pointing you out to an official campaign mission is that we are sure we have the same test base.

I have no mods.

In this particular case the AI is doing this right after its cat-launch so very little margin for the user to do anything that would create the problem.

You spend a lot of time looking at bugs but we waste a lot of time being screwed up by bugs.

So maybe when someone is pointing you to something you could first try what he's saying (or acknowledge you actually did) before just ask for a track.

Thank you.

If you do not want to report bugs as we request it, that is your choice, but it will take me longer to spend the time to set it up and get it done, where as a track, like previously given have worked to test. 

 

[84-Simba]

39 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Sadly I couldn't use this track, it has mods in it. Sorry.

Litterally 3 answers above

Mods, too long, too large, something this or that ...

I feel that everytime we report something the automatic answer is ''track'' just to get it dismissed later and the bug report thrown under the carpet until someone else digs it out.

I said ''just start Dominant Fury M5 and see''.

Did you do it ?

[NineLine]

SO just start Mission 5 and I will see it.

Nope, sorry I did not.

Please stop complaining about what we require for tracks, of course we cannot use tracks with mods in them, they are half the time the reason for issues. 

We can use longer tracks sometimes, but if you can make a shorter one, it is helpful, and you know better what is causing it, have little info to go on to reproduce a bug is very tough to do. Like start a mission and see... that is unhelpful. 

If you want to see this fixed, and from what I have see so far, on good tracks it is, then please supply info as we need it, if you dont want to do so, then please do not clog up the thread with complaints about it.

[84-Simba]

6 hours ago, NineLine said:

SO just start Mission 5 and I will see it.

Nope, sorry I did not.

Please stop complaining about what we require for tracks, of course we cannot use tracks with mods in them, they are half the time the reason for issues. 

We can use longer tracks sometimes, but if you can make a shorter one, it is helpful, and you know better what is causing it, have little info to go on to reproduce a bug is very tough to do. Like start a mission and see... that is unhelpful. 

If you want to see this fixed, and from what I have see so far, on good tracks it is, then please supply info as we need it, if you dont want to do so, then please do not clog up the thread with complaints about it.

As I said ... I advise to test that way because it is an official content and since it happens right at mission start, there is little room for the player to do something that induce the bug.

And when I discussed that problem on the campaign section, all the numerous people impacted pointed out to a bug we all know very well because it has plagued the game for a loooong time now.

You want infos to be supplied ''as you want'' but still, the bug is here. I would have assumed that trying another approach would be advised, but nevermind.

''On good tracks it is (fixed)"

Well, good job then.

Thank you very much.