need evidence Setting FCR to STBY boxes OVRD

[Northstar98]

Hi everyone,

 

I've found something that might be worth investigating. When selecting STBY on the FCR, OVRD automatically gets selected. This prevents you from going from STBY to another mode until OVRD is unboxed (fortunately, when you do, the mode selected appears).

I would've expected OVRD to only be boxed when the pilot presses the OSB adjacent to it, allowing you to go from STBY to any other mode immediately.

Spoiler

On a kinda related note, this is still present.

F-16CM_FCR_STBY-OVRD.trk

[BIGNEWY]

I will ask the team on Monday but we may need evidence for this behaviour. 

thanks

[Northstar98]

11 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I will ask the team on Monday but we may need evidence for this behaviour.

So far I can't see anything in at least a HAF F-16CJ -34 that states that selecting STBY automatically selects OVRD. What it does state is that the converse happens (i.e boxing OVRD automatically selects STBY, which the F-16 module also does).

There is also a depiction of the FCR format in STBY and OVRD isn't selected - right now they're exclusively mutual.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Northstar98

[Frederf]

Looking into it it does say when STBY mode is entered that OVRD is highlighted, but that is in the description of the OVRD button which leaves open the possibility that this highlight applies only to STBY entry initiated by the OVRD button instead of all STBY entry. The diagrams aren't showing it highlighted. Best I can figure when STBY is selected by the mode menu OVRD is not highlighted and when STBY is selected by the OVRD button, OVRD is highlighted. It's not super clear though but that makes the most sense to me.

The idea is that pressing OVRD would return you back to the radar mode that existed before it was selected as it's a temporary overriding effect. But for STBY selected from the mode menu there is no previous radar mode to return to. The highlight is for selecting/deselecting the override. I don't really know why the OVRD button is available on the STBY format though. I guess you could choose STBY through the menus and then select OVRD as a overriding option as well?

I would treat the menu selection as the permanent FCR mode and the OVRD highlight/dehighlight as a temporary overriding mode. Thus you could have any underlying FCR mode with or without the override including the STBY FCR mode with and without the override.

[Northstar98]

On 6/12/2022 at 4:48 PM, Frederf said:

Looking into it it does say when STBY mode is entered that OVRD is highlighted, but that is in the description of the OVRD button which leaves open the possibility that this highlight applies only to STBY entry initiated by the OVRD button instead of all STBY entry. The diagrams aren't showing it highlighted. Best I can figure when STBY is selected by the mode menu OVRD is not highlighted and when STBY is selected by the OVRD button, OVRD is highlighted. It's not super clear though but that makes the most sense to me.

That's what I figured.

It makes sense that OVRD selects STBY (as OVRD is there to have quick route to STBY without navigating the menu), but it doesn't really make sense for OVRD to be automatically selected when selecting STBY from the menu:

Firstly, because OVRD is just supposed to be a quick way of selecting standby, bypassing the menu. Secondly, because if you've selected STBY from the menu and you want to select another mode, all OVRD does is get in the way (i.e you have to select the mode and deselect OVRD, when I would've thought you could do it straight from the menu).

Obviously if you select OVRD, deselecting it would return you back to the last selected mode (which doesn't really apply in STBY).

On 6/12/2022 at 4:48 PM, Frederf said:

The idea is that pressing OVRD would return you back to the radar mode that existed before it was selected as it's a temporary overriding effect.

Yes and this behaviour is modelled. If I box OVRD it returns me to the last selected mode (which can be selected while in OVRD).

Something to keep in mind though is that AFAIK the FCR initialises in STBY when it's turned on, if we got that in DCS and OVRD gets automatically selected, it just gets in the way (you can't be taken to a mode just by selecting it, you have to first unbox OVRD). There would also be no mode to return to once you unbox OVRD, you'd still be on STBY.

On 6/12/2022 at 4:48 PM, Frederf said:

The highlight is for selecting/deselecting the override. I don't really know why the OVRD button is available on the STBY format though. I guess you could choose STBY through the menus and then select OVRD as a overriding option as well?

That's what currently happens when selecting STBY - all it means is that when you want to exit STBY and into another mode, you have to  itself.

On 6/12/2022 at 4:48 PM, Frederf said:

I would treat the menu selection as the permanent FCR mode and the OVRD highlight/dehighlight as a temporary overriding mode. Thus you could have any underlying FCR mode with or without the override including the STBY FCR mode with and without the override.

Yes, that's how I understand what OVRD is supposed to do.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Northstar98

[Frederf]

I have to say, the DCS behavior that selecting STBY from menus and then deselecting via the OVRD OSB which sends you back to the last FCR mode prior to selecting STBY from menus is really pleasant behavior. If it's exactly correct or not I don't know but current DCS behavior seems like the kind that designers would do intentionally and that pilots would appreciate. It's very usable as is.

[Northstar98]

21 minutes ago, Frederf said:

I have to say, the DCS behavior that selecting STBY from menus and then deselecting via the OVRD OSB which sends you back to the last FCR mode prior to selecting STBY from menus is really pleasant behavior. If it's exactly correct or not I don't know but current DCS behavior seems like the kind that designers would do intentionally and that pilots would appreciate. It's very usable as is.

I can't say I agree.

It makes sense if you want to return to a mode, but if you're in standby and want to go to a different mode, you can't simply select that mode from the menu and be taken straight to it - you have to deselect OVRD. In that case OVRD just gets in the way.

 

If you just use OVRD to go to standby, then yes, no problem.

[Frederf]

Ah, I didn't try that. I was deselecting OVRD from the STBY page which returned to the before-STBY FCR mode nicely. I didn't try navigating the menus from STBY.