fixed Target/Threat database does not match between PLT and CPG

[Floyd1212]

I was hoping to see some fixes in this realm from today's patch, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

When playing a large mission, the database of targets/threats is getting (over)filled with pre-populated threats, and that seems to be causing all kinds of issues.  Maybe combined with some de-sync issues in MP.

Here are some of the issues I just experienced tonight:

PLT and CPG join the server and hop into an Apache.  PLT sees 40 pre-populated threats on the COORD page.  CPG sees 50.  Some are friendly, some are enemy, but no way to tell which is which by looking at the list.

CPG deletes T01 through T06 to give himself some room to create his own points.  PLT still sees T01 through T06 in his COORD page.

CPG adds TGT point T01 on his TSD and tries to slave to it.  It slaves someplace else completely different.  (Possibly the point that the PLT still had for T01?)

At one point the CPG gets disconnected from the server and reconnects.  When he comes back in, his custom T01-T06 points he had setup are gone and all 50 points show up again.  Is he getting a synchronized list from the points that are stored in the aircraft when he spawns, or is he getting his list pre-populated from scratch?

Any indication that these issues are being worked on, ED?  This really makes large missions very unenjoyable to play at the moment.

[DaveTC]

I indeed experienced problems myself on multiplayer missions. I was the pilot and using George AI as my CPG. So no human in the front seat. There seems to be a maximum of 50 slots to use in the targets/threats list. Did not find a way to delete existing ones.

Question, when targets are destroyed are they removed automatically from the targets/threats database/list?

Kind regards,

Edited June 23, 2022 by DaveTC

[Akiazusa]

8 minutes ago, DaveTC said:

Question, when targets are destroyed are they removed automatically from the targets/threats database/list?

IIRC,they won't be removed automatically. I think they are preplanned and are copied to the aircraft system via DTC at mission start.

[Picure]

The is the main reason why I stopped flying the Apache.

[dedlike.]

to give some ideas, i think it would be great if

1. You can set points on the F10 map and it will populate threats around your points

 

2. just a slider in the special menu allowing you to set "operational range" , lets say 100km, it will only populate threats 100km around my home airfield

 

 

[Scaley]

I'm hoping at some point the whole TSD will properly sync, because right now actually more functions DO NOT sync between the cockpits than ones that do. In our group the only 2 things that seem to (mostly) reliably sync are creation of points, and adding them to routes. Almost everything else does not, or only syncs intermittently. Given the TSD point database is probably a fairly large code section to re-do I wouldn't hold your breath on any of the TSD stuff getting fixed unfortunately. Previous ED releases have generally shown that adding new features are prioritised over bug fixes for core systems, even when (as is evidently the case here) it's stopping people flying the module. 

[Floyd1212]

10 hours ago, DaveTC said:

Question, when targets are destroyed are they removed automatically from the targets/threats database/list?

I wouldn't expect this behavior, as the aircraft has no idea when a target is no longer a threat, i.e. killed.  It could be killed by another player at any time.  This isn't a real-time detection of radar contacts.

 

9 hours ago, dedlike. said:

to give some ideas, i think it would be great if

1. You can set points on the F10 map and it will populate threats around your points

You can sort of do this right now with the utility The Way.  If your TSD is in NAV PHASE it will add the points as waypoints, if the TSD is in ATK PHASE it will add them as TGT points.  (I don't think this is compatible with VR, though.)

[dedlike.]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Floyd1212:

I wouldn't expect this behavior, as the aircraft has no idea when a target is no longer a threat, i.e. killed.  It could be killed by another player at any time.  This isn't a real-time detection of radar contacts.

 

You can sort of do this right now with the utility The Way.  If your TSD is in NAV PHASE it will add the points as waypoints, if the TSD is in ATK PHASE it will add them as TGT points.  (I don't think this is compatible with VR, though.)

ah, no sorry i was refering to the fact that it should Load threats around your F10 points, instead of the whole map

[QuiGon]

On 6/23/2022 at 6:42 AM, Floyd1212 said:

I was hoping to see some fixes in this realm from today's patch, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

When playing a large mission, the database of targets/threats is getting (over)filled with pre-populated threats, and that seems to be causing all kinds of issues.  Maybe combined with some de-sync issues in MP.

Here are some of the issues I just experienced tonight:

PLT and CPG join the server and hop into an Apache.  PLT sees 40 pre-populated threats on the COORD page.  CPG sees 50.  Some are friendly, some are enemy, but no way to tell which is which by looking at the list.

CPG deletes T01 through T06 to give himself some room to create his own points.  PLT still sees T01 through T06 in his COORD page.

CPG adds TGT point T01 on his TSD and tries to slave to it.  It slaves someplace else completely different.  (Possibly the point that the PLT still had for T01?)

At one point the CPG gets disconnected from the server and reconnects.  When he comes back in, his custom T01-T06 points he had setup are gone and all 50 points show up again.  Is he getting a synchronized list from the points that are stored in the aircraft when he spawns, or is he getting his list pre-populated from scratch?

Any indication that these issues are being worked on, ED?  This really makes large missions very unenjoyable to play at the moment.

I have to agree as I struggle with the exact same problems when flying the Apache on servers like Buddyspike BlueFlag.

[Floyd1212]

A little more info on this after playing some MP tonight.

When we spawn into a fresh helo, I (PLT) see 34 targets in the list, and my CPG sees 31.  So we haven't maxed out the list at 50, but there is still a problem.

His T20 is at a different coordinate than my T20.  Actually, all of his coordinates on that page are in a completely different area of the map than mine.  He is also showing "8" and "ZU" in his list for the IDENT, and I am seeing "AD" for all 34 targets in the list.

He selects T20 and slaves the TADS to it.  His screen:

 null 

According to the Field of Regard box, and the constraints box for the missile, this target is directly in front of us.

On my screen, he is slewed way off to the sky to the right, even though I see the correct constraints box for the missile. 

If he de-slaves, my view fixes itself and I see where he is actually pointing.  If he slaves again, it swings all the way to the right again.

Hope that helps.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Floyd1212

[QuiGon]

@Floyd1212 Quick question: When you observed these issues, did you and your buddy both spawn in when the aircraft was still totally cold and dark or was it already (partially) running when you spawned in?

[Floyd1212]

On this particular mission, the aircraft is cold and dark when we spawn in.

I have learned to wait for him to "join the crew" and be in the cockpit before starting up the aircraft, or else you get a whole different set of de-sync issues where his MPDs don't light up.

[QuiGon]

2 minutes ago, Floyd1212 said:

On this particular mission, the aircraft is cold and dark when we spawn in.

I have learned to wait for him to "join the crew" and be in the cockpit before starting up the aircraft, or else you get a whole different set of de-sync issues where his MPDs don't light up.

Thanks, that's good to know and is indeed the cleanest way to spawn in

[Floyd1212]

I will add this bit of info which may or may not be relevant: The larger missions we like to play are typically setup to place units dynamically into zones at runtime with scripts, and/or use persistence files to track state over several sessions.  Maybe the issue only exists with these more complicated missions?

The mission I posted those screenshots from was Open Season Apache.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3321116/

The other large missions we like to play are Foothold Caucasus and (official release coming soon) Foothold Syria. 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3319499/

[Floyd1212]

@BIGNEWY Can you move this thread to the Bugs & Problems section, please?  I haven't seen anyone from the team acknowledge this specific issue, in this thread or any of the other related threads since the introduction of pre-populated threats in the aircraft database.

The problem is exacerbated by some of the friendly units not respecting the "Hidden on MFD" attribute and fill up the COORD database, which has also been reported.  But, the bigger issue is with the difference in the list that the PLT sees compared to the list the CPG sees, and then what happens when the CPG slaves to a saved COORD.

Being able to store points and recall them is one of the fundamental ways the crew is able to coordinate with each other in the aircraft, and right now this functionality appears to be broken; at least for the two of us.

The screenshots I posted earlier in the thread demonstrate the problem, but let me know if there is more info needed.

[Floyd1212]

I went ahead and changed the title of the thread to better represent the nature of the problem

[QuiGon]

22 hours ago, Floyd1212 said:

I haven't seen anyone from the team acknowledge this specific issue, in this thread or any of the other related threads since the introduction of pre-populated threats in the aircraft database.

It has been forwarded to the team and they are investigating.