correct as is Realistic A-10C radio communications

[Jascha]

[DISCLAIMER: I have tested this in A-10C legacy but as far as I know it affects A-10 Tank Killer Upgrade as well.]

Here is something that bothers me.

A-10C (legacy) has 3 radios (VHF 1 AM, UHF, VHF 2 FM). I understand, that if I disable easy communications I have to set up correct frequency and use correct radio (mic switch) to communicate. According to the official ED manual these are:

The communications menus will look as follows (example):

MIC switch forward:

MIC switch down:

MIC switch aft:

But in DCS there is also a keybind for communications menu (default “ \ “) which I occasionally use out of habit.

Then the communications menu will look like this:

What is interesting to me, with this keybind  i.e. "Interphone" menu I'm able to speak to ANY frequency that is currently set on ANY of these three radios. Meaning - I can use it to speak using VHF 1 AM, UHF, VHF 2 FM (or ground crew). So here is the first question - is this realistic?

 

Another (related) question is - is the rotary selector dial working as it should?

According to the official manual (rather vague):

(btw I don't understand "and monitor" in this description)

From my tests this dial affects MIC switch forward. If I set it to INT and use MIC switch forward I'll get "Interphone menu" (same as “ \ “). If I set it to VHF and use MIC switch forward – I'll get “VHF AM” (default setting).

If I set it to “FM” or “HF” (UHF?) or the last position (no description):

 

in all these three cases MIC switch forward will enable communications menu like this (no radio indication at the top):

 

This menu also gives possibility to speak to ANY frequency that is currently set on ANY of these three radios. Meaning – any setting of the rotary selector dial different from “VHF” will cause MIC switch forward to enable communication menu valid for all 3 radios (and ground crew).

So the question is - is this correct?

What’s also interesting, I can speak to the ground crew using any of the radio menus (any mic switch) with canopy closed (which doesn’t seem right).

 

Now, this is only my gut feeling, but I think that:

• I should be able to talk on UHF frequency only using MIC switch down (and Mic switch forward with rotary dial in HF position?).
• I should be able to talk on VHF FM frequency only using MIC switch aft (and Mic switch forward with rotary dial in FM position?).
• I should be able to talk on VHF AM frequency only using MIC switch forward with rotary dial in VHF position.
• I should be able to talk to ground crew with canopy closed only using MIC forward with rotary dial in INT position.
• I should be able to talk to ground crew with open canopy using any communication menu.

Any thoughts?

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jascha
Spelling

[=475FG= Dawger]

I don't have the A-10 but with easy comms OFF, if the radio you are transmitting on is not tuned to the correct frequency, no one will answer.

The same thing should apply to the interphone.

This is an approximation of how it works in real life.

The visibility of the receiving station in the menu doesn't mean you are correctly tuned.

 

As far as the ability to talk to the "ground crew", I personally don't think there should be any limitations. 98% of the time the crew knows what is to be loaded before the crew gets to the aircraft and the aircraft is already loaded per the mission. For a rearm/refuel, again, the ground crew would already know what you want/need and/or hand signals can easily convey the required information.

[Jascha]

31 minutes ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

The visibility of the receiving station in the menu doesn't mean you are correctly tuned.

Yes, I'm aware of that. Just to be clear - I posted pictures of menus to show their radio description (or lack of) on the top.

Description "VHF AM" / "CB UHF" / "VHF FM" over communications menu - means that I will broadcast only via the indicated radio.

Description "Interphone" (or no description at all) means that I will broadcast on any radio (on frequencies that are currently set on them).

I'm not sure if this is how it always was or has this changed recently. I'm using the latest Open Beta.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jascha

[=475FG= Dawger]

Interphone is how you talk to the ground crew if they plug in to the aircraft at an exterior jack. 
 

It is not a radio. 

[Frederf]

The interphone connects the pilot to the radios. It's the "local streets" that transports voice around in the airplane. The radios are the "highways" that go outside.

If the intercom breaks the radios are useless in the same way the highway is useless if transport across local roads is impossible. However communication via intercom is possible with everyone that's physically connected with it. This includes other crew, ground crew plugged in, and AAR boom operators.

[Jascha]

I understand that Interphone is not a radio. I never said it is. I said that in DCS I can broadcast to to all 3 radio frequencies (that I'm tuned in to) via Interphone communications menu.

Does Interphone in A-10C has separate mic switch? How do you use it in RL?

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jascha

[Frederf]

It depends. There is a "hot mic" switch option which provides constant open communication on the intercom direct from pilot voice. There is also a PTT switch.

In previous DCS versions you could open the intercom menu by pulling the HM switch out and it would pop up the intercom-based F1 menu. It doesn't anymore. Otherwise "\" represents just speaking normally. So with HM out and "\" you would simulate talk to ground crew over hot mic intercom. Technically if you had HM in and "\" to speak you shouldn't be heard by ground crew but in DCS it works both HM in and out.

The MIC switch on the throttle, forward direction, can do VHF or INT PTT depending on rotary position. FM and HF positions shouldn't do anything. Any of the 4 rotary positions in DCS plus MIC switch forward will get you ground crew. The VHF position will be the "VHF AM" device, INT "Interphone" device, and FM/HF the blank/none device.

[Jascha]

Ok, now I feel like we are getting somewhere.

20 minutes ago, Frederf said:

In previous DCS versions you could open the intercom menu by pulling the HM switch out and it would pop up the intercom-based F1 menu. It doesn't anymore.

This seems realistic. So what we currently have is a.. simplification where I can use one communications menu - the one initiated by "\", described incorrectly as "Interphone" that acts as mic for all 3 radios, which is not realistic. Is this correct?

20 minutes ago, Frederf said:

The MIC switch on the throttle, forward direction, can do VHF or INT PTT depending on rotary position. FM and HF positions shouldn't do anything.

You mean in DCS or RL? Because that's how it works DCS right now. Well, kind of. FM and HF and INT (and blank) rotary dial positions let me talk on all radios from the same communications menu (initiated with MIC forward).

20 minutes ago, Frederf said:

Any of the 4 rotary positions in DCS plus MIC switch forward will get you ground crew.

MIC switch down and aft will get me ground crew as well. I understand that this should be correct provided that HM switch is on. Right?

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jascha

[Frederf]

Having something happen menu-wise by pulling out the HM knob was less realistic than what it does now (nothing). The "\" while in HM mode is as exact as a simulation can get without voice recognition software. The spelling over "Intercom" v. "Interphone" is a small detail.

In real life the MIC switch forward does the "rotary-selected action" and it does in DCS. In "VHF" you would hear plugged into the intercom and over the VHF radio. In "INT" you have to be plugged into the intercom. In "HF" or "FM" is interesting. The "FM" will let you monitor the FM radio (RL, not tested DCS) even if the FM knob is in because it's using that "forward mic channel". You can't talk with forward mic switch in "FM" or "HF" though, seemingly even intercom. There's also a final rotary position beyond HF without label which allows monitoring TACAN similar to FM.

You will find that when you "transmit" on Interphone that other people cannot hear your message outside your airplane because you did not transmit over any radio. If you transmit over radio anyone listening to intercom will hear your message regardless of HM setting because it is necessary for all voice transported to radio equipment to travel over intercom system. It's perfectly correct for all radio messages to be received by ground crew for this reason. In fact you find this is common in multiplayer, users make radio messages to ground crew because it works even though it annoys others listening on that frequency.

In short, these are the two options to realistically talk on intercom only (not radio):

1. HM out, press "\"
2. HM in (or out), rotary set to INT, press MIC switch forward

[Jascha]

Thank you for clarifying this.

So if I understand you correctly this means that communication menus and rotary dial in DCS A-10C don't work in 100% realistic way. However, we can always use them in a correct way.

Communicate via VHF FM radio only with MIC aft menu (regardless of rotary dial setting).

Communicate via UHF radio only with MIC down menu (regardless of rotary dial setting).

Communicate via VHF AM radio only with MIC forward menu (with rotary dial set to VHF).

(i.e. other means to communicate via these 3 radios are not realistic)

And to communicate with ground crew (intercom) - as you mentioned.

Is this correct?

1 hour ago, Frederf said:

There's also a final rotary position beyond HF without label which allows monitoring TACAN similar to FM.

Oh, that explains why I was hearing TACAN Morse code suddenly without changing the TACAN volume knob.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jascha

[Frederf]

Looks good

[ASAP]

No. The intercom letting you talk on all the radios is not accurate. That’s a bug or at least incorrectly modeled.

So my understanding of real life procedures is to always have the wafer switch set to VHF. That way pushing the button forward is always for the front radio, mid for the UHF and aft for the aft radio. The intercom and hot mic nobs are used together, either both on or both off. Pull both up and you’ll talk to your crew chief or tanker boom operator without having to press any buttons. They’d also do that if they want the HUD tape to record their voices. 

Especially with arc-210 radios (which we should supposedly get some day) the wafer switch is kinda an unnecessary hold over from the A model so they don’t mess with it.

side note. Pilots talk to the crew chief a ton during normal ops. They need to communicate with them for all the ground checks and before starting engines or moving any control surface. Same with their arming/dearming crews. When the ground crews are working under the aircraft pulling pins or putting in chocks or looking at stuff the pilot should have his hands away from the controls so they want to be able to talk to them without touching the throttle.

[Frederf]

The intercom does not "let you talk on all radios" in DCS.

Makes sense to leave the rotary selector alone and just use hot mic selectively. What USAF prefers to do is a different question than what the hardware can do.

[Jascha]

23 minutes ago, Frederf said:

The intercom does not "let you talk on all radios" in DCS.

Well it does. That was the point of this whole topic.

If you use "\" comms menu (in DCS described as Interphone) you can "talk to all 3 radios".

If you set the rotary dial to INT (or actually any position but VHF), the communications menu that is enabled by MIC forward lets you "talk to all 3 radios".

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jascha

[Frederf]

Maybe you're using easy communications. Under the normal simulation if I'm in an A-10 on 30 MHz and you press "\" and make a message while your FM radio is tuned 30 MHz, I won't hear it.

Remember the device listed above the "F1" line is the device that menu pertains to.

[Jascha]

Easy communication are disabled (I have no frequencies in comms menus). I've noticed it playing the Georgian Hammer campaign. Tested in SP only.

You can check it yourself easy. Just launch A-10C instant action, tune in UHF to ATC and use the two methods I described above.

[Frederf]

Thanks for being persistent. You're absolutely right and that's a bug. Noticed that VHF FM won't work when actually using the radio too.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Frederf

[Jascha]

8 hours ago, Frederf said:

Thanks for being persistent.

Thank you for taking your time to check this and to post a proper bug report.

Regarding the VHF FM radio - this problem can possibly be related only to ATC. I had no problems communicating with JTAC on 30.000 MHz via VHF FM in SP campaign. I do recall that I couldn't reach ATC on lower frequencies (FM) though (once, not recently). I can't say for sure if this was A-10C or different module (F/A-18C possibly). But I didn't dwell on it, as there are other ATC frequencies to choose and I mainly use UHF radio to contact ATC anyway.

[jaylw314]

2 hours ago, Jascha said:

Thank you for taking your time to check this and to post a proper bug report.

Regarding the VHF FM radio - this problem can possibly be related only to ATC. I had no problems communicating with JTAC on 30.000 MHz via VHF FM in SP campaign. I do recall that I couldn't reach ATC on lower frequencies (FM) though (once, not recently). I can't say for sure if this was A-10C or different module (F/A-18C possibly). But I didn't dwell on it, as there are other ATC frequencies to choose and I mainly use UHF radio to contact ATC anyway.

I VERY vaguely remember having difficulty calling ATC on VHF FM last year, so I wonder if this bug has been around for a while.  However, like you, I just mainly ended up using UHF or VHF AM anyway, so I didn't think about it again until just now.

[Ahdidaas]

I wanted to thank y'all for this post and thread.   I was struggling with understanding the intercom panel, as I wanted to be able to talk to my crew w/ the canopy closed, and I felt the manuals were vague.  

 

Ty!