No Radar Lock or Missile Warning?

[-Relax-]

Does the Mirage F1 gives no lock on warning or fox 1 missile warning to other jets rwr?
Only notices nails from F1 so far on rwr´s, but never a spike or missile warning.

Edited August 2, 2022 by -Relax-

[Get_Lo]

22 minutes ago, -Relax- said:

Does the Mirage F1 gives no lock on warning or fox 1 missile warning to other jets rwr?
Only notices nails from F1 so far on rwr´s, but never a spike or missile warning.

 

R530 and S530F are not guided by CW guidance, only Pulse from the same frequency that the radar emits on normally. therefor there is no shift in radar emissions when firing these weapons and thus no "launch" for the hostile to detect. However the hostile should be able to detect a lock as the radar is focused on illuminating the target. Even if there was a shift in the radar's frequency for guidance the French SARH missile are LOBL and therefor would be giving "launch" warnings even before the missile was launched, but this only really applies to the S530D on the Mirage 2000 as it uses CW guidance. the F1 shouldnt alert the hostile of anything more than a lock.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Get_Lo

[H7142]

On 8/2/2022 at 1:53 PM, Get_Lo said:

R530 and S530F are not guided by CW guidance, only Pulse from the same frequency that the radar emits on normally. therefor there is no shift in radar emissions when firing these weapons and thus no "launch" for the hostile to detect. However the hostile should be able to detect a lock as the radar is focused on illuminating the target. Even if there was a shift in the radar's frequency for guidance the French SARH missile are LOBL and therefor would be giving "launch" warnings even before the missile was launched, but this only really applies to the S530D on the Mirage 2000 as it uses CW guidance. the F1 shouldnt alert the hostile of anything more than a lock.

 

So just to confirm the 530 doesn't track the target via a speedgate.  Just the radar returns?

[Nealius]

I wish the AI knew this information. They go defensive as soon as the misisle leaves the rail. I haven't managed to hit anything with it so far, even at <5nm. 

[Harlikwin]

On 9/7/2022 at 1:31 PM, H7142 said:

So just to confirm the 530 doesn't track the target via a speedgate.  Just the radar returns?

I don't think anyone really knows, there isn't much on the 530 guidance on the missile side that I have found. Though given its a 60's missile that may be the case. 

What we do know from the manuals is that once you are locked by the Cyrano radar there is no further change in frequency/PRF/anything from a locked up state to a missile just got fired state. So from that perspective there shouldn't be any difference in "state" an RWR could see there to indicate a missile has been fired.

Other radars do other things like switching to CW illum for example for some US radars which can be detected. But this doesn't seem to be the case for the Cyrano. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Harlikwin

[H7142]

On 9/23/2022 at 4:45 PM, Harlikwin said:

I don't think anyone really knows, there isn't much on the 530 guidance on the missile side that I have found. Though given its a 60's missile that may be the case. 

What we do know from the manuals is that once you are locked by the Cyrano radar there is no further change in frequency/PRF/anything from a locked up state to a missile just got fired state. So from that perspective there shouldn't be any difference in "state" an RWR could see there to indicate a missile has been fired.

Other radars do other things like switching to CW illum for example for some US radars which can be detected. But this doesn't seem to be the case for the Cyrano. 

 

Then would it even be capable of working in cluttered environments, aka even the slightest lookdown angle?  Without a speedgate it wouldn't be able to filter out any clutter returns.

[Harlikwin]

4 hours ago, H7142 said:

Then would it even be capable of working in cluttered environments, aka even the slightest lookdown angle?  Without a speedgate it wouldn't be able to filter out any clutter returns.

IDK if it had some sort of speed gate, or if some bagguete grade tech still let it work, but yeah in general it shouldn't work well in those environments. Also keep in mind, signal strength in that case is still gonna be relative, i.e. a radar reflective target is still gonna be a stronger return than random ground clutter by some db limit.

 

[MysteriousHonza]

This is from mirage III manual, its same missile. On F1 it was modified to work with cyrano IV radar only. It have range gating to counter basic eccm like chaff packs. What range gate does too, is ignoring returns outside the gate - ignoring ground echoes. Ofc irl it would be cluttered by side lobes and ground clutter if both plane and ground were in that gate but that would be for all missiles in dcs and they are working like in perfect environment in dcs. Even things like R-27R or aim-7F should fail horribly against low flying plane according to history.

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by MysteriousHonza

[Panny]

Is the Cyrano IV a pulse doppler radar or just pulse?

[Harlikwin]

12 hours ago, Panny said:

Is the Cyrano IV a pulse doppler radar or just pulse?

Pulse with MTI not doppler.