Flight Director Mode, why it is not used in real?

[815TooCooL]

I read that real Ka-50 pilots rarely use FD mode.

What was the goal of FD mode & why it is not being used that much in real?

I know what is FD mode but didn't fly that much in FD mode and I'm in holiday vacation so I can't fly Ka-50.

It stabilize attitude of helo so it's good in rocket strafing etc, right?

Dang, I really wanna play this sim again!:D

At least I can look for manual, training videos & producer's notes.

There was nothing enough about FD mode.

[Grodin]

Flight director does not stabilize altitude but rather disables autopilot from automatically returning pitch/yaw/bank/collective to where they were when you last trimmed, depending on AP modes.

 

Real pilots don't have trim issues as they do not have to use a sping centered PC controller to fly their choppers, so they don't need such fancy things.

[EvilBivol-1]

In essence, Flight Director mode is designed to cue the pilot to do what is normally done by the autopilot. So, it's more work for the pilot and is therefore generally avoided. That's why there's an autopilot in the first place, so the pilot has less work to do.

[Axion]

In my experience so far which is very little I have found that the Shark is far easier to fly with FD mode enabled. From what you are saying Evil this should not be the case.:unsure:

[ericinexile]

In my experience so far which is very little I have found that the Shark is far easier to fly with FD mode enabled. From what you are saying Evil this should not be the case.:unsure:

 

That's my experience too. I was so disappointed with flying this Sim (after waiting 2 years for it). Then I discovered how much better it flew with the blue buttons off. It flew like a helicopter! But it wasn't so easy to fight and control the thing in that configuration. Then I was told about the Flight Director and that was the kicker. It now flies like the YouTube videos (even does the funnel) and is easy enough to hover, search, and shoot without the autopilot.

 

Real pilots don't use the Flight Director? Well real pilots don't fly with a $100 Saitek either.

 

FD Rules

 

Smokin' Hole

[Lange_666]

In my experience so far which is very little I have found that the Shark is far easier to fly with FD mode enabled. From what you are saying Evil this should not be the case.:unsure:

 

As far as i understand it, that's because you don't use the trim function like it should be used. Not that i'm doing it right, i also keep fighting with the controls a lot more then it should, (especially the YAW which i can find completely blocked mostly to the left while the copter still turns around his axis to the right) but that's because i forget to trim and re-trim and re-trim or that i trim at the wrong moment or that i don't keep the button trimmed when it should be. And then the next time, i make the same mistakes again.

The biggest problem for me is still re-centering the controls after a trim. If you are not at zero the moment controlinputs are live again, you have a problem because your input at that point is added to the already trimmed input and this is growing bigger everytime you miss that re-centerpoint. You then start to use less and less trim which in general makes you look for som other option to control the copter the way you want it to fly.

That, + the fact that you have to recenter your stuff after every trim, makes this hard to master.

Edited December 31, 2008 by Lange_666

[Axion]

But that's my point, with FD enabled the need for trimming is vastly reduced and the bird seems to fly in a more controlled manner. Maneuverability appears to be just as good and if not better than if FD was disabled. Obviously IRL this maybe not be true as others have pointed out.

[RichardG]

Big airliners (747s and such) also have a flight director. Almost all pilots do not use it either, because they keep autopilot on.

 

I remapped "t" to center trim, its important when you land the bird again, or you may tip it over.

[rmakowsky]

Jet pilots often set flight director and follow the command bars. Helo pilots tend not to do that.

[Grodin]

True, but as said, they fly a real thing, wich in some ways (feedback etc) make it easier compared to us. We have spring centered cheap plastic joysticks with no feedback so can't expect us to do it exactly like them.

[Dr_Watson]

I only just put the FD on for the 1st time tonight and what a difference. I can actually do stall turns, co-ordinated turns at any speed. I have been fighting this yaw problem for weeks and couldn't understand how the online flying was so precise and had no yaw oscillations after turns etc.

 

Now it flies like a beast! I have the master arm, laser, weapons pylons, fd, cannon, lock, zoom, park brake, ...ok, I have everything mapped and have completed some short sorties and flying display without letting go of stick or collective...I luv this game now!!!

 

I done a hard landing and the complete tail broke off, managed to fly around for 15 mins, and land back, ejected after landing and the pilot landed on the hanger roof, then I jumped off the roof onto the rotor blades, strange sortie!!!

 

Also putting the dials to 256 res sorted my micro stutters and the cockpit looks no worse.

[Reoze]

So the real question is what's the most realistic/easy to use joystick for black shark? I picked up a force3D pro and it was terrible. Too much slack in the stick and the force feedback would trim the stick into a different position than where the cockpit stick was resulting in a completely untrimmable helo.

[EvilBivol-1]

There is no one answer about what is easiest/best in Black Shark. We can tell you what is the most realistic, but we can't always tell you how to best get there, given your hardware and your flying technique. We would have to be there and watch you fly or at least connect up online to really see what's happening on your end.

 

The best thing to do is try a few different methods and see which one works for you. Give it some some, it may take a few days of flying to sort it out. Once you do, however, you should have a perfectly controllable and stable helicopter on your hands.

[ericinexile]

Big airliners (747s and such) also have a flight director. Almost all pilots do not use it either, because they keep autopilot on.

 

Not true. "Flight Director" seems to have a very unique meaning and purpose in the Kamov. Airline pilots almost always use the flight director when hand-flying. The exception is when we are on a visual approach where the FD is supplying useless information. With the autopilot on, the Flight Director is still always on. Thats the best way for us to see what the FCC is asking the autopilot to do.

 

Smokin' Hole

[Reoze]

There is no one answer about what is easiest/best in Black Shark. We can tell you what is the most realistic, but we can't always tell you how to best get there, given your hardware and your flying technique. We would have to be there and watch you fly or at least connect up online to really see what's happening on your end.

 

The best thing to do is try a few different methods and see which one works for you. Give it some some, it may take a few days of flying to sort it out. Once you do, however, you should have a perfectly controllable and stable helicopter on your hands.

 

I don't have much of a problem flying the black shark normally. I usually use an X52, right now i'm using a cheap wingman equally as well. I don't need a ton of buttons just a good responsive stick.

 

I've only seen a couple of force feedback joysticks and am wondering what's the best way to replicate the BS joystick.

[EvilBivol-1]

ED recommends the MS Force Feedback 2. Where you can find one is another question, since it's no longer for sale.

[Weta43]

If you can source one it's well worth it...

 

(prefferably with the software CD)

[Reoze]

Does MS have downloads for the drivers? I have no issues ebaying it.

[815TooCooL]

So, FD mode off for almost every flying is realistic way, am I understainding it right?

Even in specific job like ground strafing etc?

[Grodin]

So, FD mode off for almost every flying is realistic way, am I understainding it right?

Even in specific job like ground strafing etc?

 

 

If you control it with a real Ka-50 joystick, yes, that would give realistic results.

[ARM505]

I fly the real thing all the time (by real thing, I mean using a real FD, not Ka50!), and the FD's are almost always engaged, except during things like a visual approach, when changing the input info constantly is counter-productive. FD's are there for when the workload is so high, that your instrument scan could benefit from a 'single glance' point of reference. Looking at the FD bars (crossbars, in a B737 for example) immediately tells you if you've got things pointing in the appropriate direction. An example of this kind of situation would be some kind of failure that kicked out the AP, whilst flying in cloud. It's very easy for a slow roll to put you in an unusual attitude before you know it, and even easier for an engine failure to do the same thing. A quick glance at the FD bars gives you peace of mind (provided the FD is being given the right info of course). All it shows is what the AP would have done, had it been engaged.

 

So, if you feel that you will not encounter a steady state flight condition (ie straight and level) where your AP is unavailable, and your workload will be high, do not use the FD mode. In the 737 of course, the FD's are on all the time if you've turned them on, regardless of whether the AP is engaged or not, it's not 'one or the other'. I never use the Ka50's FD's.

[ericinexile]

^^^^^^^^

 

I fly airliners as well. And although everything you stated is true, the

FD has a completely different purpose here. I use it exclusively. Not for command guidance (which is it's ONLY use in our environment) but rather to get the autopilot out of my way.

 

Smokin' Hole

[ARM505]

But couldn't you just turn the autopilots assisted stuff off then? Or am I missing the point entirely here? (Entirely likely!) Is it easier (or do you specifically choose) to fly with no assistance, other than attitude guidance from the HUD?

[MBot]

Good point. Actually I would like to get the FD symbols out of the HUD, as I use the mode only because it disables the autopilot and not because it gives me 'directions'.

[Reticuli]

I thought I read in the DCS:BS manual that real shark pilots "more often" use Flight Director, not less. And it turns off the autopilot flying the aircraft for you to the waypoint (or exactly on the course track, depending on the heading/track switch setting), instead giving you HUD cueing and symbology telling you how far off in orientation you are from where you'd be if the actual autopilot-proper was on. If it wasn't confusing enough, "flight director" is sometimes the name of the navigational computer the autopilot-proper gets its course information from in some western civilian aircraft. You also usually have a means of choosing between this advanced single-console solution as your source or the more antiquated back-up nav system with a knob or switch. So it's quite a bit different in the Ka-50 modeled here.