Lighting axes controls don't start working till 50% rotation

[imacken]

Picked up the Tomcat again after several months away, and I noticed that all my lighting control axes, e.g. AoA Indexer, don't start turning the cockpit dials until 50% rotation on my controllers.

Looks OK with full defection in Axis settings.

Is this normal behaviour?

[imacken]

I have the same issue with 3 or 4 other modules, so I guess I'll raise this in the main Controllers bug section.

[lunaticfringe]

Try changing the axis type setting to "slider" in the axis tune menu for the applicable axes.  If you have to go to 50%, the axis is being registered with a center, rather than linearly, and will likely only go "hot" once you break that midpoint at 51%.  

Otherwise, you could circumvent this using the custom curve option, setting the first value (rotator axis at 0) to 50%, then do the other 10 in 5 percent increments- 55/60/65, and so on.

[imacken]

Thanks for that.  

There is a fuller post here on this Certain modules - A-10C (I and II), Harrier, F-14 and Mirage 2000 - lighting axes don't start until 50% rotation on knobs - Controller & Assignment Bugs - General - ED Forums (dcs.world) where I note that changing to/from slider makes no difference.

Only a problem with A-10C (I and II), Harrier, F-14 and Mirage 2000.

Modules not affected: Hornet, Viper, Viggen, Bf109-K4, F-5E, P-51, Spitfire, Huey and T-51P.

I'm sure this behaviour didn't happen until recently.

 

[imacken]

Looking into this a bit more, it is only lighting binds that are affected.  If I bind the same knob to a non-lighting bind, e.g. HUD brightness, then it works OK. If I go back to assigning it to a lighting axis, then we're back to the 50% thing.

(BTW, your user curve thing works, but it's problematic if I change binds for the reasons above, i.e. if it wasn't lighting then I'd have to reverse the user curve option.)

I should also say that it's not a device thing, I've tried various and the issue is the same on the F-14 and the 4 other affected.  Others (as above) are OK.

 

[imacken]

Sorry about all the posts on this, but could someone please try this - bind an axis to a lighting control, e.g. ACM panel light, see if the control in-cockpit only starts working at 50%.  Then, bind the same knob to a non-lighting bind, e.g. HUD brightness and see if it then OK?

[IronMike]

Well, the light controls are more like rollers that progress 1 step up (or down), than an axis. Maybe the conflict lies therein? That 51% of your axis is registered as 1 (or several) step(s) up, so only then you get movement on the lights themselves? IIRC we do not offer ACM, console, etc light controls as axis bindings, because, well, they are not really axis, unlike the hud brightness knob, which we do offer as an axis. So your entire axis kinda works like a toggle that can only toggle back and forth, but not really up up up or down down down several times in succession if that makes sense. Basically they activate the toggle when past or below 50% is my guess.

Not really how these rollers are intended to be used, and maybe thus simply the wrong choice of binding, if I may suggest politely. An up/down rocker would be much more fitting, or really a roller that reflects the position of the light control rollers.

Edited September 1, 2022 by IronMike

[imacken]

Thanks, but that’s not really the issue. As @lunaticfringesaid, if users curves are used starting at 50% incrementing up to 100% then the axes knobs work perfectly. 
The F-14 axis commands for lighting come from @Quagglesinvaluable injector mod, but that isn’t the issue either. This is only a problem with lighting axes in the F-14, A-10C, Harrier and Mirage 2000 and most of these lighting axes are not from the injector mod. All other modules’, e.g. Hornet, Viggen, Viper, Spitfire etc., lighting axes work perfectly normally. 

[IronMike]

52 minutes ago, imacken said:

Thanks, but that’s not really the issue. As @lunaticfringesaid, if users curves are used starting at 50% incrementing up to 100% then the axes knobs work perfectly. 
The F-14 axis commands for lighting come from @Quagglesinvaluable injector mod, but that isn’t the issue either. This is only a problem with lighting axes in the F-14, A-10C, Harrier and Mirage 2000 and most of these lighting axes are not from the injector mod. All other modules’, e.g. Hornet, Viggen, Viper, Spitfire etc., lighting axes work perfectly normally. 

Again, they are not axes in the Tomcat. They are rollers. There's not such thing as "lighting" axes in general. The hud brightness is a lighting axis. The console light panel controllers however are not axes, and we do not provide axes for that. The mod does that. They're not meant to be axes. Sorry to say, but that's an issue with the mod, not the Tomcat.

[WarthogOsl]

I have the VDI brightness inc/dec bound to a rotary encoder's up/down.  One thing I've noticed is that the first time I try and use it on a flight, I spin and spin the encoder, and it seems to take a while to "catch" and actually change the brightness.  It's almost like there's some lag.

[imacken]

7 hours ago, IronMike said:

Again, they are not axes in the Tomcat. They are rollers. There's not such thing as "lighting" axes in general. The hud brightness is a lighting axis. The console light panel controllers however are not axes, and we do not provide axes for that. The mod does that. They're not meant to be axes. Sorry to say, but that's an issue with the mod, not the Tomcat.

Thank you again, but I don’t think you’re fully understanding what I’m saying. It’s not an issue with the mod, it’s an issue with lighting binds. 
 I know it sounds weird, but there is something going on. Forget the Tomcat for a moment. See my previous post. There are only about 4 modules where this happens, e.g. Harrier, M2000, and they do not have added axis commands from the mod. Let me repeat, in these few modules, the LIGHTING axes only have this issue. If I bind a knob (on any device) in these modules to any lighting axis, then it starts at 50%. If I bind the same knob to a non-lighting axis, then the issue does not occur. 
I understand that it seems strange that this is only lighting axes, but the facts are there, and that’s why I posted here. 
The 50% user curve start is a great workaround, but is a pain to implement about 30 times over the affected modules. 
Why don’t you try it yourself on the Harrier, or the Mirage 2000 if you don’t want to try the injected Tomcat axes?

[imacken]

3 hours ago, WarthogOsl said:

I have the VDI brightness inc/dec bound to a rotary encoder's up/down.  One thing I've noticed is that the first time I try and use it on a flight, I spin and spin the encoder, and it seems to take a while to "catch" and actually change the brightness.  It's almost like there's some lag.

Encoders, by their nature, are not suited to that kind of bind. Either convert them to virtual axes or use them for dials where there are specific options, e.g. radio channels, radar options, etc. 

[WarthogOsl]

1 minute ago, imacken said:

Encoders, by their nature, are not suited to that kind of bind. Either convert them to virtual axes or use them for dials where there are specific options, e.g. radio channels, radar options, etc. 

Why not...it's not an axis I'm using in this case....it's a separate increase bind and a decrease bind, exactly like a radio channel one.  It actually works perfectly fine throughout the flight once it "catches" the first time you use it.

[imacken]

2 minutes ago, WarthogOsl said:

Why not...it's not an axis I'm using in this case....it's a separate increase bind and a decrease bind, exactly like a radio channel one.  It actually works perfectly fine throughout the flight once it "catches" the first time you use it.

If it’s working ok for you then great, but varying brightness from 0-100% range is not the same as making specific selections on a dial. Normally, encoders, certainly on Virpil devices, have to be made virtual axes to make that kind of bind work. It’s because of the button on/off nature of encoders. 

[Sacarino111]

Hi.

My two cents.

This certainly happens on other modules, and indeed it happened with the A4 Mod, but this last one was fixed. I can't talk for the F-14, as I use no mod for it, so I guess it is a "general bug " question.

I am more a cockpit maker more than a (good) pilot, so I always try to replicate the cockpit as much as possible, so yes, this thing happens in many modules.

Saludos

Saca111

Edited September 2, 2022 by Sacarino111

[imacken]

1 minute ago, Sacarino111 said:

Hi.

My two cents.

This certainly happens on other modules, and indeed it happened with the A4 Mod, but this last one was fixed. I can't talk for the F-14, as I use no mod for it, so I guess it is a "general bug " question.

I am more a cockpit maker more than a (good) pilot, so I always try to replicate the cockpit as much as possible, so yes, this thing happens in many modules.

Saludos

Saca111

 

Thanks for that. So glad to hear that it’s not just me! 

So, why do you think this just affects lighting axes?

[Sacarino111]

7 minutes ago, imacken said:

So, why do you think this just affects lighting axes?

Ufff. I used to fiddle with the .lua file of the bindings, but never got the touch of it...

Sorry.

Saca111

[imacken]

So, which lua will have these lighting binds in?

[Sacarino111]

Looks like the range goes from 0 to 1, instead of -1 to 1, so it only registers half of the mouvement.

 

[imacken]

Where are you seeing that?

[imacken]

As this thread is going nowhere and this affects the F-14, Harrier, A-10C and M2000, I guess I'll try again in DCS general bugs/issues.

[SkateZilla]

On 8/18/2022 at 6:59 AM, imacken said:

Picked up the Tomcat again after several months away, and I noticed that all my lighting control axes, e.g. AoA Indexer, don't start turning the cockpit dials until 50% rotation on my controllers.

Looks OK with full defection in Axis settings.

Is this normal behaviour?

Because the Controller is Setup to where 50% Rotation is actually Reading 0, anything below 50%, is -1 to -255, and anything above is 1 to 255.

Dials are usually 0-> 255, 

What controller are you using?

Have you checked the Axis Slider Checkbox to make it a 0-> 255 Slider instead of a -255 -> 0 -> 255 Dual Range Axis?

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by SkateZilla

[imacken]

I've just responded over on the other thread, best to keep it in one place, I guess. Best to keep it there as it affects 4 modules, not just F-14.

Certain modules - A-10C (I and II), Harrier, F-14 and Mirage 2000 - lighting axes don't start until 50% rotation on knobs - Controller & Assignment Bugs - General - ED Forums (dcs.world)