Heat seeking missiles for the Ka-50

[piko1]

LOL :megalol:.

what for i'm noob and i'm Bulgarian after all

:P:P:P

 

a2a ?

 

http://airwar.ru/image/idop/ah/ka50/ka50-2.gif

 

P.S. Upps... yep my mistake i thought it was for the Sh version ...

Edited January 4, 2009 by piko1

[GGTharos]

Let me set this straight for you then ... :D

 

ED got their information on the Ka-50 straight from Kamov. Russian Army Aviation does NOT equip them with R-73's (or any other A2A missile). Russian helicopter pilots confirm this. Period, end of argument :D

[goro]

From FireBirds :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2QnGikwmU4

[Boberro]

From FireBirds :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2QnGikwmU4

 

Hah :lol:

[fox_111]

They most certainly do NOT.

The only aircraft currently carrying ATAS is the OH-58D, and one version of the AH-1 carries the AIM-9 for some rather special missions.

 

 

I'm pretty sure they did carry AA missils on their wingtips. As protrayed in Jane's Longbow games. I also saw them in action in some videos. Also used on the Kiowa warrior.

 

Not 100% they are stigners, but sure they are AA ir missils.

[GGTharos]

Let me make this extremely clear.

 

I do not CARE what you have found on the internet or in other games. You had an actual, factual Apache pilot RIGHT IN THIS FORUM tell you that it is SIMPLY NOT DONE.

 

Get it? Is the discussion over yet? ;)

[Acedy]

Pffft Ghost, what's the report from an "actual, factual" Apache pilot vs. the uberwisdom of the Internetz. Clearly the Ka-50 can carry A2A weapons. Go figure...

 

[AlphaOneSix]

I'm pretty sure they did carry AA missils on their wingtips.

 

They didn't.

 

GG, if you're referring to me as the Apache pilot, I must humbly confess that I wasn't a pilot. Bradmick is currently an Apache pilot, and I think his dad was as well. I did get to fly in the AH-64A CMS (combat mission simulator) quite a number of times, and I did get to fly the real thing a couple of times, so that helps.

 

A-model Apaches have the anti-collision and navigation lights on the wingtips, as well as the ground crew intercom connection. You can't mount missiles on the wingtips of any operational (i.e. non-testbed) AH-64A Apache.

 

Let's not forget the fact that the electronics required to use air-to-air missiles was also never installed in an operational A-model Apache.

 

As protrayed in Jane's Longbow games. I also saw them in action in some videos.

 

If Janes would have left them out, just imagine the outburst from enthusiasts all over the world screaming about how they have seen videos on Discovery and how the marketing literature shows the Apache firing air-to-air missiles. Better to just appease the market and put them in, right? If you ever saw a video of an Apache firing any kind of air-to-air missile (and I am sure that you did, because I did, too), it was a test/development aircraft and was not indicative of the capabilities of the fleet in general.

 

Which reminds me, the AH-64A in the Janes game carried 30 chaff and 30 flares, right? Where did it carry those 30 flares? There is only one M130 chaff dispenser on an AH-64A. There is no provision to mount a second dispenser. No operational AH-64A ever carried flares, only chaff.

 

Also used on the Kiowa warrior.

 

Absolutely! The OH-58A/C and the OH-58D both have fielded examples of ATAS-equipped aircraft in operational units. I myself was in a unit with OH-58A/C Kiowas with ATAS mounted. In fact we took them to Desert Shield/Storm with us, and we test fired them at drones out at White Sands Missile Range.

[hoorah]

I hate for this to be my first post but this is straight from the boeing website http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ah64d/docs/AH-64D_overview.pdf:

 

•

A combination of laser-guided precision Hellfire missiles, 70mm rockets, and a 30mm automatic cannon with up to 1,200 high-explosive, dual-purpose ammunition rounds

 

 

I would says this is the best "Open Source" for this subject (apache wise). I'm not saying some one hasn't hung a stinger or AIM-9 on the apache. Hell, I have a video of the Isreali's firing an AIM-9 off a H-53. I'm just saying its not adopted.

 

 

 

Anywho,

I get my new computer this week, can't wait to fly with you all.

Edited January 4, 2009 by hoorah

[GGTharos]

LOL!

 

It's zee zekret upgrade!

 

Acedy you rock :D

 

Pffft Ghost, what's the report from an "actual, factual" Apache pilot vs. the uberwisdom of the Internetz. Clearly the Ka-50 can carry A2A weapons. Go figure...

 

[Rhino4]

Just give up GG. You're obviously dealing with fanbois.:D We all know you'll never convince them that just because the RL chopper doesn't carry them and that they only fired a2a missiles in tests from prototype/testbed acft, and just because the photos on the net and in books are only mockups and not operational acft, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't get to use them in a game labelled as a "study sim" where absolute realism is paramount to its presentation, does it?:megalol:

 

On the other hand: I wonder why they made KH-25s available to the KA-50 in-game? They don't carry those in RL either, correct? Or is that just a workaround as in lockon and not actually an option included in the game?

[GGTharos]

I could speculate that it might have been to test certain aspects of the laser with the only flyable available, but - I am only speculating, I have no idea.

[Rhino4]

What's are those, BTW? (Hafta give food to the fanboys too. wouldn't be fair otherwise, lol.)

 

[ThunderChief]

Using the B1 for A2A would have big advantages as you could the load the F22 with bombs as you wouls lack bombers then :P

[Acedy]

What's are those, BTW?

 

Hehe, I think you noticed the irony in that pic... ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(tbh, I have no idea what those are)

[AlphaOneSix]

I would guess Igla of some sort.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

What's are those, BTW? (Hafta give food to the fanboys too. wouldn't be fair otherwise, lol.)

 

You spoiled the fun! Now everybody knows! :)

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

BTW, Black Shark manual, page 2-53, figure 2-39, item 4 on the picture? Why is it be there if AA missile is not available?

[GGTharos]

Because it is. The fire rate switch in the A-10 is there but it isn't operational either, IIRC. So what?

[arneh]

I would guess Igla of some sort.

 

Indeed they are, twin launchers for Igla-Vs.

 

Like these ones:

[fox_111]

They didn't.

 

GG, if you're referring to me as the Apache pilot, I must humbly confess that I wasn't a pilot. Bradmick is currently an Apache pilot, and I think his dad was as well. I did get to fly in the AH-64A CMS (combat mission simulator) quite a number of times, and I did get to fly the real thing a couple of times, so that helps.

 

A-model Apaches have the anti-collision and navigation lights on the wingtips, as well as the ground crew intercom connection. You can't mount missiles on the wingtips of any operational (i.e. non-testbed) AH-64A Apache.

 

Let's not forget the fact that the electronics required to use air-to-air missiles was also never installed in an operational A-model Apache.

 

 

 

If Janes would have left them out, just imagine the outburst from enthusiasts all over the world screaming about how they have seen videos on Discovery and how the marketing literature shows the Apache firing air-to-air missiles. Better to just appease the market and put them in, right? If you ever saw a video of an Apache firing any kind of air-to-air missile (and I am sure that you did, because I did, too), it was a test/development aircraft and was not indicative of the capabilities of the fleet in general.

 

Which reminds me, the AH-64A in the Janes game carried 30 chaff and 30 flares, right? Where did it carry those 30 flares? There is only one M130 chaff dispenser on an AH-64A. There is no provision to mount a second dispenser. No operational AH-64A ever carried flares, only chaff.

 

 

 

Absolutely! The OH-58A/C and the OH-58D both have fielded examples of ATAS-equipped aircraft in operational units. I myself was in a unit with OH-58A/C Kiowas with ATAS mounted. In fact we took them to Desert Shield/Storm with us, and we test fired them at drones out at White Sands Missile Range.

 

I reject this reality and substitute it with my own. :music_whistling:

 

haha

[GGTharos]

Expect BlackSharks with lasers on their heads near your window soon, then! ;)

[Flanker15]

The arguments I'd have for allowing A2A on choppers would be:

-The Vikhr seems unreliable and overly complex to engage other helicopters and you might want to save them for tanks. People on the forum seem to go with the cannon instead.

-They don't have A2A missiles in real life because there's no need for them as helicopters never run into other helicopters any more. So the work to get them to work wouldn't be justified. However in BS it is a fictional setting where they do run into each other so the work to install them may have gone ahead.

-I'm not sure but isn't the Igla just a system where you point at the enemy helcopter and shoot, then the missile does the rest, no complex hud or targeting systems required?

-Just to have the option there so that people who want to have them can have them in their own missions.

[Boberro]

As far I remember there was only one real fight helis vs helis in over history - in Iranian - Iraqi war... If there were more fights correct me. So by so many years helicopters using over the world there was only one fight, so why wasting helicopters' pylons on situations which for helicopters are really rare as like big comet dropping on Earth and do Tunguska boom again...

 

Maybe we'll hear soon helis need anti-radar missiles, and complains about why it can't carry it.

 

"Why Ka-50 can't carry Kh-58s :("

 

:D

[Rhino4]

My argument against it would be:

-It's unrealistic. The vikhr may be overly complicated but that's just how it is.

-DCS: BS is supposed to be as realistic as it gets.

-The KA-50 is not a scout helicopter.

-If helicopters ran into each other in real life then they would most likely be scout helicopters, like the OH-58D.

 

...You see, we have a circular argument here:

"I want provisions for A2A put into the KA-50."

"But it wouldn't be realistic."

"I don't care, as long as it would make my life easier. BS is hard enough as it is."

"BS is hard because it's realistic. If you want phony a2a, then play lockon."

"I don't want to play lockon. I want to play BS, and I want to shoot A2A."

"If you want to shoot A2A, then why would you want to do it from a helicopter?"

"I dunno. I think it would be cool...And it would be easier than using the damn Vikhr."

"Well, I think you're looney, and that you would risk degrading the accuracy of this simulation just so you can have a bit of extra cheese on your cracker."

"Well I think you're an ass who can't see that it's not real anyways so why should it matter?"

"Because it does. It's a simulation, damnit, not an arcade game."

"Then why does it have an arcade mode, smarty-pants?"

"For morons like you who think crying about how hard life is will net them an easier way to go about it."

"But it's not life. It's a game you blathering idiot! And since it's a game, I don't see why we can't have a friggin' A2A missile!"

"Because it wouldn't be realistic!"

"I don't care, as long as it would make my life easier. BS is hard enough as it is..."

 

....And on and on and on...

 

Best to just quit arguing about it and let ED decide if they'll put it in or not.

 

P.S. Arguing with yourself can be quite frustrating when your other half can't see eye to eye with you on the most trivial of crap: My other half is a complete ass.:D