F-14A and MS Sidewinder 2 FFB

[Hammer_251]

  As is, with FFB enabled and swap axis in the controls, do I need to set up some kind of curvature for pitch axis. Without curvature, my stick is almost all the way forward. Will it be possible to trim the aircraft reasonably. I am trying to refuel air/air right now and the trim is literally making me stall. Also find I cannot engage autopilot. 

Help!??

Hammer_251

[MAXsenna]

Setting curves on FFB sticks can mess up the FFB logic. So I don't do that. In a lot of modules/airplanes the deflection of the stick is way less forward than aft. This is then implemented in a lot of modules with FFB support, and can be seen if you open the controls indicator. The F-5E even has an option for it under the special settings. The problem with the MS FFB2, is that the physical stick is so short, that it seems unnatural. 

The Tomcat had some issues with FFB, not sure if they are fixed, but IIRC the team has acquired a stick, and I assume FFB implementation will be awesome in the future. I highly recommend you to mod your stick with an extension, and other cool tricks if you search around. The power  etc. 

Cheers! 

[Hammer_251]

Thanks for your input. You are right, stick is short and feels unnatural. FFB I have found out IS actually already preset, no fine tuning necessary. Everything seems fine now, trim included. Autopilot works as advertised.  Thanks again, sorry for the late reply.

[MAXsenna]

23 hours ago, Hammer_251 said:

Thanks for your input. You are right, stick is short and feels unnatural. FFB I have found out IS actually already preset, no fine tuning necessary. Everything seems fine now, trim included. Autopilot works as advertised.  Thanks again, sorry for the late reply.

Cool! 

I'm back in the Cat myself, got caught up in learning AAR in every module, (Only the Harrier left), and it seems FFB is now better than I remember. Only issue I have is that it's trimmed forward and not neutral, in air starts at least, but it's easy to "fix". Just pull the stick back, and trim until you "feel" it's trimmed. 

Thank you Heatblur!

[VirusAM]

On 10/2/2022 at 11:07 PM, MAXsenna said:

Cool! 

I'm back in the Cat myself, got caught up in learning AAR in every module, (Only the Harrier left), and it seems FFB is now better than I remember. Only issue I have is that it's trimmed forward and not neutral, in air starts at least, but it's easy to "fix". Just pull the stick back, and trim until you "feel" it's trimmed. 

Thank you Heatblur!

There are also issues with the Autopilot. 

About the stick position, it is shifted forward always (air or cold/hot start on the ground).

At least on my side, I am not able to use it (VPForce's Rhino FFB base) 

Edited October 5, 2022 by VirusAM

[RustBelt]

Is it running through DirectX ffb or is it like the Brunner where it’s making up its own feedback?

[VirusAM]

Is it running through DirectX ffb or is it like the Brunner where it’s making up its own feedback?

DirectX ffb
Buy the maker is planning also to augment the effects via lua exports

[RustBelt]

Odd it shouldn't work with DirectX FFB. Because that's what I thought DCS was using for the Sidewinder.

[AH_Solid_Snake]

I also have the VP Rhino - specifically for the DCS F-14 and it works OK with the caveats that the stick does trim to a forward leaning position on mission start - so your first action is almost always applying some aft trim to even it out.

The autopilot I think is a known problem that it can knock itself off if the stick moves however I haven't really noticed that being a problem - the stick even follows the 1Hz back and forth motion once AP is engaged which is a nice touch.

[RustBelt]

The pitch is going to do that. “Center” doesn’t mean anything in regards to pitch. Stick forward gets it out of the way for ingress/egress. And nose down pitch is more stable on the ground as a headwind causes nose down, and a tail wind is kept from getting under the tail and lifting it up. 

to say nothing of clearance requirements when the wings are in oversweep.

It would be nice if it eased into it as opposed to slamming the stick forward the moment you load in. But that could also be solved stick side.

 

Trim should be 0 for land takeoff and about 2 indexes nose up for catapult on the control position indicator. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by RustBelt

[AH_Solid_Snake]

One extra thing for the VP Rhino specifically is you can use the software to define physical stick limits - so you can get a more 1:1 stick position to what you see in the sim by limiting the pitch axis to 1/4 of the throw forward (real control sticks usually have much larger throw aft than forward) 

[RustBelt]

I gotta start looking into this. Time to plan winter projects.

[AH_Solid_Snake]

I don't know what the waiting list is up to now but the Rhino is definitely worth it - theres a discord community to see the development and get in line for pre-orders.

[VirusAM]

I also have the VP Rhino - specifically for the DCS F-14 and it works OK with the caveats that the stick does trim to a forward leaning position on mission start - so your first action is almost always applying some aft trim to even it out.
The autopilot I think is a known problem that it can knock itself off if the stick moves however I haven't really noticed that being a problem - the stick even follows the 1Hz back and forth motion once AP is engaged which is a nice touch.

For me the AP is not working.
I am also a VP force owner.
I am able to engage it, but then it is not really engaged as the aircraft will immediately find it self in a dive.
How do you manage to correctly engage it?
I enable altitude hold, enable autopilot (or viceversa), trim the plane for level flight and then press the nws button.

[RustBelt]

8 hours ago, AH_Solid_Snake said:

I don't know what the waiting list is up to now but the Rhino is definitely worth it - theres a discord community to see the development and get in line for pre-orders.

Oh no, i’ll be making my own gimbal and housing to fit what I have.

Also FFB yoke has been my white whale for too long. No turn key for me. All I need is Motors, board, and software. Those I just don’t have the chops for. 

[AH_Solid_Snake]

Its a good option the discord also has a showroom area for guys that have taken the DIY kit (2 motors, control board, software) and then built all sorts of weird and wonderful mechanical interfaces for.

[RustBelt]

Yea I’m over there doing some snooping already.

[Rosly]

Have the same issues with AP with MS Sidewider 2 and I think it is about the axis curves (if used).

The AP logic/implementation of trimming assume linear relationship between axis position and force arguments given to DirectX API, which is not the case, especially if you applying axis curve's.

[VirusAM]

Have the same issues with AP with MS Sidewider 2 and I think it is about the axis curves (if used).
The AP logic/implementation of trimming assume linear relationship between axis position and force arguments given to DirectX API, which is not the case, especially if you applying axis curve's.

I have issues with the AP and i have no curves (Rhino FFB base)

[VirusAM]

One extra thing for the VP Rhino specifically is you can use the software to define physical stick limits - so you can get a more 1:1 stick position to what you see in the sim by limiting the pitch axis to 1/4 of the throw forward (real control sticks usually have much larger throw aft than forward) 

I would like to do that...can you show me how to achieve?
That software is a bit complicated for me..
Thanks

[AH_Solid_Snake]

Under effects you want to look for Endstops, my settings are attached and give me a roll range which doesnt slap my thighs with the stick center mounted and a forward position a bit under half of its normal range of travel.

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by AH_Solid_Snake

[JupiterJoe]

Does everybody's MS Sidewinder FFB2 rock fore/aft when autopilot is engaged?

My ALT HOLD fails quite often.  Is this normal?

ACLS with this stick currently nosedives the plane into the ocean.  

 

Edited September 30, 2024 by JupiterJoe

[MAXsenna]

5 hours ago, JupiterJoe said:

Does everybody's MS Sidewinder FFB2 rock fore/aft when autopilot is engaged?

My ALT HOLD fails quite often.  Is this normal?

ACLS with this stick currently nosedives the plane into the ocean.  

 

 

Didn't before. What's your DCS settings for the Tomcat?

[JupiterJoe]

10 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Didn't before. What's your DCS settings for the Tomcat?

'Before'?  When's the last time you flew the F-14?

Swap Axis selected

100% Shake force

100% Trim force

FFB Trim implementation selected in the F-14 Special Menu

No curves or dead zones

[MAXsenna]

'Before'?  When's the last time you flew the F-14?
Swap Axis selected
100% Shake force
100% Trim force
FFB Trim implementation selected in the F-14 Special Menu
No curves or dead zones

Summer? I'll test.

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