Real Time Damaged Listing

[kniqht152]

I remember back in the day there was a certain very old combat focused flight simulator that would spit out on screen in real time the damage your aircraft took. For example if you got hit by some triple A fire it could spit out 'left gear hit' or 'primary hydraulics pump hit' and stuff like that.

I think it would be convenient for us to have a similar toggle-able feature in DCS. It would both help showcase the actual damage modelling each aircraft has and also give beginners and those unfamiliar with the aircraft a better idea of what is going on and the state of their air frame in flight.

It might be as easy and taking the hit reports for your aircraft from the debrief menu but porting them into the chat box in real time rather then saving that info only for end of mission.

On multiple occasions I have found myself searching through that debrief log trying to find out what downed system caused me to loose the ability to fire missiles during the mission and it would be super cool to be able to see that kind of info in real time. What do you guys think?

[Dragon1-1]

Could be useful for debugging, too (particularly mod devs trying to implement X-ray damage model, I'd imagine), it would give immediate feedback on whether a given failure mode acts like it's supposed to. You can call up the debriefing log mid-mission, but it's not especially comfortable to use. Maybe also report subsystem hits in the BDA window, so we can judge whether AI reacts to a failure in a proper way.

[SharpeXB]

Seems a bit gamey, giving the pilot info that they wouldn't have IRL. The biggest fun in a sim like this is discerning damage to your aircraft and responding realistically. A message on your screen “fuel tank damaged” sorta spoils the fun. It’s better to have to determine this from your instruments and aircraft behavior. 

[cfrag]

Since this is a wish list, there's no such thing as a 'wrong' item. That being said, I see limited use for this outside of debugging - and this assumes that the model that you are flying has a comprehensive, accurate damage model implemented (not all models have that - and that's putting it kindly). Because, let's be honest - if the damage model isn't up to standards, it's pretty much irrelevant where you have been hit and with what.

Also, I wonder about the survivability of a, say, standard 20mm HEI or SAPHEI round hitting a modern fast jet - I conjecture it's near digital: miss - you live; hit - you eject if still alive. With warbirds, it may be more interesting (provided a good damage model is present and we talk about WWI guns). And yes, I'm of course aware of Col. "Killer Chick" Campbell. She survived some AAA hit, but a) she was flying the Hog, and b) is an aviation goddess, so that doesn't count  

Edited October 8, 2022 by cfrag

[upyr1]

On 10/7/2022 at 12:13 PM, kniqht152 said:

I remember back in the day there was a certain very old combat focused flight simulator that would spit out on screen in real time the damage your aircraft took. For example if you got hit by some triple A fire it could spit out 'left gear hit' or 'primary hydraulics pump hit' and stuff like that.

I think it would be convenient for us to have a similar toggle-able feature in DCS. It would both help showcase the actual damage modelling each aircraft has and also give beginners and those unfamiliar with the aircraft a better idea of what is going on and the state of their air frame in flight.

It might be as easy and taking the hit reports for your aircraft from the debrief menu but porting them into the chat box in real time rather then saving that info only for end of mission.

On multiple occasions I have found myself searching through that debrief log trying to find out what downed system caused me to loose the ability to fire missiles during the mission and it would be super cool to be able to see that kind of info in real time. What do you guys think?

My thoughts, right now we have DCS giving information when we hit the enemy, so why not have this as well for an Easy mode option? Though it would increase realism if we could ask our wingman to give us a report to point out damage

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by upyr1

[kniqht152]

On 10/8/2022 at 8:25 AM, SharpeXB said:

Seems a bit gamey, giving the pilot info that they wouldn't have IRL. The biggest fun in a sim like this is discerning damage to your aircraft and responding realistically. A message on your screen “fuel tank damaged” sorta spoils the fun. It’s better to have to determine this from your instruments and aircraft behavior. 

Is it a bit gamey? Absolutely but that's the point. Labels are gamey, simple radio is gamey, damage assessment is gamey but all those options exist for those that want to use it. This isn't about keeping DCS uber realistic, this is about making it more approachable for those that aren't experts at their air frame and as a bonus it will highlight the work put into the damage model.
I think it's fantastic that you enjoy the search and scan of your aircraft systems to figure out what went wrong, that's amazing. However personally I want a hint. I think much like the label system most people will try using it, and some will actually leave it on. However for the amount of work it takes to implement, it would be a relatively simple mod as the information is already there and on a 'Work to Usefulness' ratio the payout would be pretty good.
 

23 hours ago, cfrag said:

Since this is a wish list, there's no such thing as a 'wrong' item. That being said, I see limited use for this outside of debugging - and this assumes that the model that you are flying has a comprehensive, accurate damage model implemented (not all models have that - and that's putting it kindly). Because, let's be honest - if the damage model isn't up to standards, it's pretty much irrelevant where you have been hit and with what.

Also, I wonder about the survivability of a, say, standard 20mm HEI or SAPHEI round hitting a modern fast jet - I conjecture it's near digital: miss - you live; hit - you eject if still alive. With warbirds, it may be more interesting (provided a good damage model is present and we talk about WWI guns). And yes, I'm of course aware of Col. "Killer Chick" Campbell. She survived some AAA hit, but a) she was flying the Hog, and b) is an aviation goddess, so that doesn't count  

 

I absolutely agree, the warbirds would be the best aircraft to feature this type of thing. I understand that other aircraft don't have that detailed of a model but in that regard wouldn't this serve in the best interest of the community in that it would indirectly highlight that as well?

[SharpeXB]

3 minutes ago, kniqht152 said:

Is it a bit gamey? Absolutely but that's the point.

Well I’m sure this suggestion would be an option that people can switch on and off. I’m just suggesting that if you haven’t tried this level of immersion you’re cheating yourself out of the best experience these sims can offer IMO. Bringing back a damaged A-10 or navigating at night over the channel low on fuel with a map and compass not knowing what that damage to your aircraft might be. Going on final only to have your gear jam and have to do the emergency release etc. The fog of war is a big immersion boost for many players.

[Inf]

Chiming in that it's fairly annoying when you're doing multiple sorties and aren't sure if you're damaged or not - like, was that landing too hard and is my gear a bit broken? Did I overspeed my flaps and now they're stuck? Is my fuel tank punctured and I'm slowly leaking fuel? With some things there's no real way to tell, and so you either waste a bunch of time doing a shutdown and repair for no reason, or take off and realize too late there's a problem.

If we don't want realtime damage reports, then a damage report on the ground would be useful. Like the ground crew giving you a quick check.
I guess this is the reason systems have BITs, but not every plane has those.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Inf

[SharpeXB]

How about a ground crew menu item: “Damage Report”

[cfrag]

39 minutes ago, Inf said:

Chiming in that it's fairly annoying when you're doing multiple sorties and aren't sure if you're damaged or not - like, was that landing too hard and is my gear a bit broken? Did I overspeed my flaps and now they're stuck? Is my fuel tank punctured and I'm slowly leaking fuel? With some things there's no real way to tell, and so you either waste a bunch of time doing a shutdown and repair for no reason, or take off and realize too late there's a problem

TBH, if this was RL, you'd shut down and have your Chief look at it. So if you are going for realism, shut down and repair. If you go for fun, continue, and maybe you can practice your emergency protocols  

 

[=475FG= Dawger]

10 hours ago, Inf said:

Chiming in that it's fairly annoying when you're doing multiple sorties and aren't sure if you're damaged or not - like, was that landing too hard and is my gear a bit broken? Did I overspeed my flaps and now they're stuck? Is my fuel tank punctured and I'm slowly leaking fuel? With some things there's no real way to tell, and so you either waste a bunch of time doing a shutdown and repair for no reason, or take off and realize too late there's a problem.

If we don't want realtime damage reports, then a damage report on the ground would be useful. Like the ground crew giving you a quick check.
I guess this is the reason systems have BITs, but not every plane has those.

 

If you aren’t damaged, the repair countdown doesn’t appear, IIRC. Besides, its only three minutes. 

[draconus]

My vote for new realistic additions:

- ask wingman for external check in flight (you can already do it with human wingman)

- ask ground crew for external damage at the airport or FARP