Desert flight suits + new helmets

[Egri_komrade]

With the in-cockpit body maybe coming in october, is it possible that desert flights suits will be available too? And I was wondering when the time finally comes, how do you think we'll be able to switch between helmets (HGU-33 and -55)? Is it going to be a texture parameter, like part of a livery, or like changing NVG's?

Edited October 11, 2022 by Egri_komrade

[LanceCriminal86]

The helmets were originally considered as possibly a livery switch but we'll have to see. It might be a special options item or doable in loadout, but it all depends on resources. As to desert flight suits, you'd have to do those as skins.

 

More ideal is if ED has a framework where the pilot bodies aren't part of the aircraft EDM, and instead only the animation skeleton and positioning needs to be. Then pilot/crew models could be swapped in as long as they were rigged correctly with a common "skeleton".

[9thHunt]

4 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

The helmets were originally considered as possibly a livery switch but we'll have to see. It might be a special options item or doable in loadout, but it all depends on resources. As to desert flight suits, you'd have to do those as skins.

 

More ideal is if ED has a framework where the pilot bodies aren't part of the aircraft EDM, and instead only the animation skeleton and positioning needs to be. Then pilot/crew models could be swapped in as long as they were rigged correctly with a common "skeleton".

it might be tied to FORGE

[LanceCriminal86]

2 hours ago, 9thHunt said:

it might be tied to FORGE

No, probably not. Forge was about panels, seat pads, etc. in the cockpit.

[Egri_komrade]

9 hours ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

Was browsing the mission editor a bit and found this setting in the MB339. You can choose, regardless of livery and model which helmet and mask you want to have for your pilot and it's dynamically represented in both external and internal pilot models. Let's hope HB can do something similar.

That is a really nice way to do this. Well, hpong for the best!

Edited December 29, 2022 by Egri_komrade
mispelled "Well"

[LanceCriminal86]

I'll take the original intent to tie them to the liveries instead. Right helmets and suits tied to the right timeframes. They might add a switch to change the anim arguments in the sim but it would be silly to have HGU-55s on the hi-vis 70s and early 80s jets.

[Uxi]

Not sure the hi-viz 70's jets really work with our block 135's anyway, but imaginations have no limit.  Would love ED to do a block 70 or 75, but can definitely feel the feature creep coming in. 

Have the desert hot suit (and chocolate chip helmet cover) in one of Flying Isoko's VF-103 livery with very nice weathering and probably the best looking GE petals I've seen.   

[RustBelt]

22 hours ago, Uxi said:

Not sure the hi-viz 70's jets really work with our block 135's anyway, but imaginations have no limit. 

It’s ok, It’s a computer game. All of it is make believe, so it not being the right Block for a paint job isn’t more unrealistic.

[LanceCriminal86]

2 hours ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

Not to mention that often older A's were flown with the HGU-55 and B's with 33's in aggressors squads. It should be done exactly like IndiaFoxtEcho did it in the MB339.

No, those things happened based on DATES, not the model of jet.

The 55 was introduced on the Navy side around '87/'88, and due to shortages many 33s were converted to the bungee visor using new edgerolls installed by the PRs, or even without that step and just adding visor bumpers or other leather material to help the visor stay put. From that point onwards, there was a transitional phase where some folks continued to use their HGU-33s as they were still considered serviceable and approved for use by NAVAIR and the newer 55s were still trickling in as the Air Force had been getting the lion's share of the allotments.

During ODS there was a mix of them, 55s, converted 33s, and standard 33s all being used. But within a year or two after for most fleet squadrons the fixed-visor 33 had faded out and either full on 55s or converted 33s were in use. The exceptions there were reserve squadrons but they still had to comply with NAVAIR. But past a certain point the 33s would not be seen, somewhere around '94 from what I have seen so far. Aggressor squadrons were just as quick to work on switching over because the bungee visor setup was lighter, meaning less weight and stress on the head during ACM.

So, no. Most liveries are being done based on dates, cruises, specific jets or at least airwings from a particular time. And based on those dates, certain helmets and flight suits are quite specifically "right", and some would be directly "wrong". An HGU-55 with the Fast Eagle 102 and 107 skins from 1981 are going to look just as retarded as Jolly Rogers F-14Bs from 2003 with HGU-33s.

[Jackjack171]

On 12/31/2022 at 9:25 AM, LanceCriminal86 said:

No, those things happened based on DATES, not the model of jet.

The 55 was introduced on the Navy side around '87/'88, and due to shortages many 33s were converted to the bungee visor using new edgerolls installed by the PRs, or even without that step and just adding visor bumpers or other leather material to help the visor stay put. From that point onwards, there was a transitional phase where some folks continued to use their HGU-33s as they were still considered serviceable and approved for use by NAVAIR and the newer 55s were still trickling in as the Air Force had been getting the lion's share of the allotments.

During ODS there was a mix of them, 55s, converted 33s, and standard 33s all being used. But within a year or two after for most fleet squadrons the fixed-visor 33 had faded out and either full on 55s or converted 33s were in use. The exceptions there were reserve squadrons but they still had to comply with NAVAIR. But past a certain point the 33s would not be seen, somewhere around '94 from what I have seen so far. Aggressor squadrons were just as quick to work on switching over because the bungee visor setup was lighter, meaning less weight and stress on the head during ACM.

So, no. Most liveries are being done based on dates, cruises, specific jets or at least airwings from a particular time. And based on those dates, certain helmets and flight suits are quite specifically "right", and some would be directly "wrong". An HGU-55 with the Fast Eagle 102 and 107 skins from 1981 are going to look just as retarded as Jolly Rogers F-14Bs from 2003 with HGU-33s.

You are my spirit animal!

[LanceCriminal86]

Just to apply more context to all of this, I've been spending hundreds of hours digging through to find the right helmet designs, flight suits, gear, patches, etc. for as many cruises as possible to not only be able to update all of the default skins on the A and B, but any proposed/ideal skins for the future on cruises that match DCS terrains, Supercarrier boats, all that. Are there exceptions to rules? YES! But they are usually pretty isolated or specific, as opposed to broad sweeping loopholes.

Here's my thoughts too re: switching via options in the settings pages, as far as multiplayer. If I'm up front and I have HGU-33s selected, and someone joins in as RIO with HGU-55 selected, how is that going to work out? Are we expecting that to be added to unique values that follow the player around? Is it just going to impact what the player sees like client side skins?

Another thought I had re: 55 vs 33 in an option switch, is if skins aren't being produced with both variants of helmet, what happens then? If the helmet goes to a default skin in the base folders that's going to look odd as well. Again, food for thought.

I know Cobra and IM's desires are always to provide choice and preferences when possible, that's fair and a very noble goal as seen by the efforts to make the new pilot models more "modular" with patches and such. That said I'm the nerd on the other shoulder who'd like to see things be consistent across the right "eras" the Tomcat module is going to represent.

And on the flight suits side, sometimes they'd wear different suits during the cruises. So for ops leading out to the PG they may still use traditional sage green CWU-27 suits, but when they start operations flying over Iraq or PG waters they would wear tan suits, remove patches, and throw on camo covers for their helmets. Other squadrons like VF-213 would sometimes wear their blue CWU-73 suits instead of the sage 27s when not flying Southern/Northern watch missions or combat hops in OEF/OIF. Plus you have VF-114 further back with their orange CWU-28 or orange summer suits from the 60s-70s.

In whatever case I definitely haven't spent any money on references trying to get the colors and materials and everything correct.

And I definitely don't have folders and folders of reference pics of helmets and gear and jets from specific cruises, including instances of where both HGU-33s and HGU-55s or converted 33s were being used mixed between crew members, which this crew from VF-74 is definitely not doing in 1992.

 

[CarbonFox]

This is a slick visor. 

[LanceCriminal86]

4 minutes ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

Livery based sure, but it should be unlocked for all variants. You had late 14D's in the RAG and aggressor B's flying with HGU-33's still. Give the user as many options as possible. We already have a Frankencat anyway.

 

Only one F-14B ever went to NFWS and was only there for 6 months, 162911, from 1992-1993. Other than that, VF-74 were the only aggressor F-14Bs, and they stood down in 1994 which is about the long end of when the HGU-33 were still in use albeit rarely.

No idea what you consider "late" F-14D use but I'm going to need some proof/photos of your claims because all photos and references from PR shop folks are that it was 55s and converted 33s, then 68s past that point by 92-93.