Varjo Aero and 4090

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, Gunnars Driver said:

Just an update to the above:

- Did Varjo fix this?

Im still on the latest 3.7.X (havent installed 3.8 yet, away from home).

I have a Z790-mobo(Asus z790-f), 13900KF and I have [b]not[/b] disabled the e-cores and everything works fantastic. 
No stutter, there is no high load on any e-core. 
I have mostly 90fps and average at least 87 fps, even playing as the server etc. 

I would guess this ussue is fixed?

I have not seen an official answer to that but based on you response sound like they may have or it does not affect all.

[Canard]

Thx for all the tips regarding stutters and performance cores to you guys. On my new rig I had (or have) the same problem but have not installed process lasso yet on it (or ventured into the bios) . I was getting a little frustrated when moving my head it felt almost glitchy no matter what resolution or position of trackers I tried. I’m on a 13900,4090, Win11 and Varjo base 3.8 + OpenXR.

A work around “fix” for me regarding stutters at this time seems to be change the priority in task manager for one of the Varjo processes to high (Varjo composer). On my system I can reproduce it with headset on in desktop mode and changing the priority from normal to high. In reverse it comes back.  It practically eliminates both up/down and side to side “jumpiness”  (Desktop, DCS and MSFS2020). 

[Gunnars Driver]

30 minutes ago, Canard said:

Thx for all the tips regarding stutters and performance cores to you guys. On my new rig I had (or have) the same problem but have not installed process lasso yet on it (or ventured into the bios) . I was getting a little frustrated when moving my head it felt almost glitchy no matter what resolution or position of trackers I tried. I’m on a 13900,4090, Win11 and Varjo base 3.8 + OpenXR.

A work around “fix” for me regarding stutters at this time seems to be change the priority in task manager for one of the Varjo processes to high (Varjo composer). On my system I can reproduce it with headset on in desktop mode and changing the priority from normal to high. In reverse it comes back.  It practically eliminates both up/down and side to side “jumpiness”  (Desktop, DCS and MSFS2020). 

Have you checked the frame time with for example fpsVR ? (I guess fpsVR can not be used with OpenXR…)

My guess from seeing my frame times with fpsVR, that in moste cases it will be the GPU/4090 that will set the limits.

I started DCS with my old quite high settings for the Reverb, only adjusted the resulotion to 100% (so about 3600x3400?). I did get 90fps most of the time and found GPU frame times to go slightly over 11.1ms at low level over land. 
@Supmua’s guide pointed to 80% with resulotion about 3300x 3300(?) but it did not change my GPU frame times noticable. 
All is working so fine that I didnt even try to change settings yet.

 

My point is: 

Maybe people wrongly believe its the CPU that cause the stutter but it actually is the GPU that is the limit if you have a 13th gen intel like the 13900? 
 

4-6ms and ”clean green” in the CPU frame time graph like I have point to that the CPU can handle the load without stutter.

There might be a difference between Win 10 and 11 but reading the threads and posts from supmua and dburne etc. imply that win 11 is as good as w10 these days?

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Gunnars Driver

[Slick Twitchy]

In IL2 I had massive jumpiness, but good FPS (I don't know why)- If I "alt-tabbed" out and then back in again, it was smooth. No idea why, but just an idea. 

 

 

[Salter10]

Hello folks. I'm about to install the 4090/13900k combo - moving from a 3080ti/9900k (with the Varjo Aero obviously). I switched to OpenXR at the time, and it did make a bit of difference compared to SteamVR. But wondering if there's a point doing so again with this upgraded setup - with so much raw power on tap. There's some extra effort maintaining an OpenXR setup compared to out-of-the box SteamVR. Would love your input.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Salter10 said:

Hello folks. I'm about to install the 4090/13900k combo - moving from a 3080ti/9900k (with the Varjo Aero obviously). I switched to OpenXR at the time, and it did make a bit of difference compared to SteamVR. But wondering if there's a point doing so again with this upgraded setup - with so much raw power on tap. There's some extra effort maintaining an OpenXR setup compared to out-of-the box SteamVR. Would love your input.

 

Very nice upgrade I am envious!! I tried Open XR and got tired of all the adjustments I kept trying to make for just a small gain in performance. I much prefer the easier to use Steam VR and it's simplicity so I stay with it. I find Open XR Toolkit way too convoluted to use and confusing naming conventions for some them. Not worth it for me.

Trying to get my hands on a 4090 now but won't be upgrading my 9900k for about another year.

Edited December 29, 2022 by dburne

[alfred2704]

13 hours ago, Salter10 said:

Hello folks. I'm about to install the 4090/13900k combo - moving from a 3080ti/9900k (with the Varjo Aero obviously). I switched to OpenXR at the time, and it did make a bit of difference compared to SteamVR. But wondering if there's a point doing so again with this upgraded setup - with so much raw power on tap. There's some extra effort maintaining an OpenXR setup compared to out-of-the box SteamVR. Would love your input.

Hi, I'm on the same set 4090/13900KF and I switched to OpenXR since VRAM usage with SteamVR is overly high. F14 Siria cold start SteamVR VRAM > 20GB. With OpenXR VRAM 12GB aprox. And OpenXR looks more smooth at least on my HW and DCS settings.

[Salter10]

3 hours ago, alfred2704 said:

Hi, I'm on the same set 4090/13900KF and I switched to OpenXR since VRAM usage with SteamVR is overly high. F14 Siria cold start SteamVR VRAM > 20GB. With OpenXR VRAM 12GB aprox. And OpenXR looks more smooth at least on my HW and DCS settings.

Thank you for this. I was hoping otherwise, but you're presenting a compelling case. Are you per chance, flying in 2.8? Are you seeing performance issues that other VR flyers mentioned?

[alfred2704]

43 minutes ago, Salter10 said:

Thank you for this. I was hoping otherwise, but you're presenting a compelling case. Are you per chance, flying in 2.8? Are you seeing performance issues that other VR flyers mentioned?

Yes, the latest DCS OB here. In VB sync. locked at 45fps. In my MoBo I disabled E-cores till we have multi-threading for CPU from ED(maybe next year?).

For P-cores OC I have: P-60x2 - 59x4 - 58x6 - 57x8 . I'm usually single player but even in complex campaigns now it performs more less flawlessly although worse then in 2.7.

[Salter10]

6 hours ago, alfred2704 said:

For P-cores OC I have: P-60x2 - 59x4 - 58x6 - 57x8 . I'm usually single player but even in complex campaigns now it performs more less flawlessly although worse then in 2.7.

Super! Thanks for this. I will be going through OC'ing once my AIO arrives - this is helpful. Did you happen to try and measure FPS in DCS before/after disabling E-cores? 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Salter10

[alfred2704]

1 hour ago, Salter10 said:

Super! Thanks for this. I will be going through OC'ing once my AIO arrives - this is helpful. Did you happen to try and measure FPS in DCS before/after disabling E-cores? 

 

Disabling E-cores is not about performance. Performance could be the same. It's about to have more room for OC of P-cores and not reach the 13900 TDP limit. On heavy missions it reaches 90-130W as you can see there is a lot of margin up to intel 253W limit. Once we have multi-threading E-cores could be enabled and of course this implies reducing OC of P-cores to be always under 253W limit.

[Supmua]

The latest DCS beta update did something to improve performance.  I'm getting steady 90fps with Harrier Caucasus free flight in SteamVR mode now with CPU frametimes as little as 6ms and GPU 10ms or less.  Similar findings with F-16 Persian Gulf in noncongested areas.

I've messed around with Vulkan wrapper (DXVK) also unfortunately doesn't work in VR.  This works really well in other games though, especially ones that use Unity engine...completely eliminates stuttering in Unity games that are affected.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Supmua

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Supmua said:

The latest DCS beta update did something to improve performance.  I'm getting steady 90fps with Harrier Caucasus free flight in SteamVR mode now with CPU frametimes as little as 6ms and GPU 10ms or less.  Similar findings with F-16 Persian Gulf in noncongested areas.

I've messed around with Vulkan wrapper (DXVK) also unfortunately doesn't work in VR.  This works really well in other games though, especially ones that use Unity engine...completely eliminates stuttering in Unity games that are affected.

 

 

Some of you go way deeper into the weeds than I likely ever will. That is ok though I am still having a blast with DCS and my Aero several hours daily. Now just trying to get my hands on a 4090 at retail price. Scalpers can all burn far as I care.

 

[Supmua]

22 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Some of you go way deeper into the weeds than I likely ever will. That is ok though I am still having a blast with DCS and my Aero several hours daily. Now just trying to get my hands on a 4090 at retail price. Scalpers can all burn far as I care.

 

Don, sign up with nowinstock and get real-time notifications on your phone.  That's how I buy difficult to find items these days.  Bestbuy typically has them in stock regularly, sold out very quickly though and might not be the model you want.  Unless you're picky on the brand you should be able to buy one from legit stores.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Supmua said:

Don, sign up with nowinstock and get real-time notifications on your phone.  That's how I buy difficult to find items these days.  Bestbuy typically has them in stock regularly, sold out very quickly though and might not be the model you want.  Unless you're picky on the brand you should be able to buy one from legit stores.

 

Been checking Best Buy , Nvidia, and other stores off and on most of days. I also signed up for notifications at NowInStock however they have disabled cell phone notifications for now. Just get email.

[Greekbull]

So I'm now setup with the Varjo Aero and 4090.  It's amazing!  Question for you guys that have tried both.  Are you running the Aero with OpenXR or SteamVR?

My goal is the absolute best Image.  I think I should be smooth enough with my hardware either way.   Haven't used SteamVR in months since I went that way with my Reverb G2 but have always missed the presets you get with Reshade...

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Greekbull said:

So I'm now setup with the Varjo Aero and 4090.  It's amazing!  Question for you guys that have tried both.  Are you running the Aero with OpenXR or SteamVR?

My goal is the absolute best Image.  I think I should be smooth enough with my hardware either way.   Haven't used SteamVR in months since I went that way with my Reverb G2 but have always missed the presets you get with Reshade...

 

I tried Open XR with the Toolkit for about a week some time ago. Went back to Steam VR due to the simplicity. I did not care for that myriad of tweaking and adjustments one can get into with the Toolkit and honesty I saw a little gain in performance just not that much. Now I spend bulk of my time flying not tweaking. 

I think most folks really like using Open XR and Toolkit though so I am likely in the minority.

[Supmua]

6 hours ago, Greekbull said:

So I'm now setup with the Varjo Aero and 4090.  It's amazing!  Question for you guys that have tried both.  Are you running the Aero with OpenXR or SteamVR?

My goal is the absolute best Image.  I think I should be smooth enough with my hardware either way.   Haven't used SteamVR in months since I went that way with my Reverb G2 but have always missed the presets you get with Reshade...

For best image quality, SteamVR + Reshade 5. There is so much you can do with video post processing, it’s almost like getting an upgraded headset. 

[Salter10]

On 12/31/2022 at 6:33 PM, dburne said:

 

Been checking Best Buy , Nvidia, and other stores off and on most of days. I also signed up for notifications at NowInStock however they have disabled cell phone notifications for now. Just get email.

This may not be relevant, being a Canadian chain retailer, and in most cases it won't ship via online order - but found that they'll usually have one or another of the OEMs at a decent retail price. Here's what I purchased last week: https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_557_559&item_id=226645. I got it from one of their  locations in Toronto, and it retails for roughly $1600usd. Time to find out if you have a Canadian in your family 

[dburne]

37 minutes ago, Salter10 said:

This may not be relevant, being a Canadian chain retailer, and in most cases it won't ship via online order - but found that they'll usually have one or another of the OEMs at a decent retail price. Here's what I purchased last week: https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_557_559&item_id=226645. I got it from one of their  locations in Toronto, and it retails for roughly $1600usd. Time to find out if you have a Canadian in your family 

 

Nice thought but all my family (who is left) are from the deep south.

[Greekbull]

5 hours ago, Supmua said:

For best image quality, SteamVR + Reshade 5. There is so much you can do with video post processing, it’s almost like getting an upgraded headset. 

Great thanks, is it easy to switch between the two?  If so what is your recommended procedure?  With the Reverb G2 it was incredibly simple.  I just turned off OpenXR in OVGME and launched DCS.  Thanks!

[Supmua]

57 minutes ago, Greekbull said:

Great thanks, is it easy to switch between the two?  If so what is your recommended procedure?  With the Reverb G2 it was incredibly simple.  I just turned off OpenXR in OVGME and launched DCS.  Thanks!

I either run DCS repair or drag the original dll back into the bin folder to switch back to SteamVR.  Repair itself is fairly fast just select it from Windows menu and hit ENTER.  OVGME can likely do the same thing, but I don’t like to depend on external programs in general.

[Gunnars Driver]

11 hours ago, Supmua said:

For best image quality, SteamVR + Reshade 5. There is so much you can do with video post processing, it’s almost like getting an upgraded headset. 

Do the post processing increase the load on the CPU or the GPU ?

I use openVR and it works fantastic, there’s a lot of headroom on the CPU but the GPU is on the limit of coping with 90fps over land.

 

[Supmua]

3 hours ago, Gunnars Driver said:

Do the post processing increase the load on the CPU or the GPU ?

I use openVR and it works fantastic, there’s a lot of headroom on the CPU but the GPU is on the limit of coping with 90fps over land.

 

Depends on the type of filters that you choose.  Lumasharpen, for example, has negligible effect on performance but can enhance ground details significantly.  Filters that alter color saturation or contrast also tend to have minimal effect on performance.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Supmua

[charts100]

Hi All, 

Pleased to see this is not just me. Upgraded to a 4090 system end of Dec and had this issue also. Great performance upgrade but the stuttering with the Aero is killing me!

Hope they sort a fix soon.