Informations about airfields for devs

[Fred901]

Hello,

I allow myself to give you some informations about the airfields of Normandy 2. It's up to you to see if it will be useful to you or not, if you want to create the most historic airfields or not! it's for you to see !

The topic will be fed regularly by me or by others, why not!

I start with the Advanced Landing Ground (ALG) on English soil which will be present on the Normandy 2 map:
Needs Oar Point ALG, Funtington ALG and Chailey ALG.

First of all, it must be understood that the Advanced Landing Grounds were temporary airfields, so they only had basic constructions (wooden huts, huts, tents, etc.)

Funtington ALG:

I admit that I do not have much information on this ALG but with what I have, I was able to draw a plan which seems to me to be the most probable historically:

 

Funtington was mainly used by Spitfires as well as Typhoons.

For info I used the site:http://www.atlantikwall.co.uk/oldsite/atlantikwall/sussex/funtington01/html/page02.htm

As well as the superb book by Ken DELVE entitled: The Military Airfields of Britain

 

Needs Oar Point ALG:

 

RAF Chailey:

Here for tonight.
More information soon...

Edited October 29, 2022 by Fred901

[DD_Fenrir]

Annotated version of RAF Ford:

This is the layout in 1947, but is practically unchanged since the 1944 version; the unidentified hangar types on the eastern pan may well be post-war additions; I am attempting to tie down what types these were and when they appeared.

Notice the large number of blister hangars and a preponderance of the the blast pen type B (annotated with a red K).

 

EDIT: the unidentified hangars on the Eastern dispersal are in existence in a 1940 Luftwaffe reconnaisance photo - their apparent dimensions of ~90ft x <200ft  and the fact that in the photo they have low ridged rooves strongly suggest that these are of the "Bellman" type hangar:

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by DD_Fenrir

[Fred901]

Thank you very much DD_Fenrir for your contribution !

Tonight I'm going to talk about RAF Kenley:

This is a plan circa 1944:

Kenley at the start of the war:

 

A diagram representing Kenley around 1944:

We see :
-In the blue circles, of the Blister Hangar
-In the red squares, of type E blast pens (In Yellow squares of type E blast pens destroyed).
-In the black square, the only double Belfast Trust hangar that survived the Luftwaffe attack on August 18, 1940.
-In the 3 green rectangles, the 3 empty spaces of the other double hangars Belfast Trust destroyed on August 18, 1940.
-In the orange rectangle, the officers' mess.
-In the purple rectangle, the operations room.

Blister Hangar in DCS (The Channel map):

 

Blast Pens at Kenley airfield today:

In DCS:

These Type E and Type B blast pens are already on the Channel map in DCS. I hope you don't have to redo them but use the existing ones in DCS. If not here are plans:

Type E:

Type B:

Type B in DCS:

Hangar Belfast trust:

Belfast Trust hangar in Kenley in the 1960s:

In the 1970s:

officers' mess in orange and operations room in purple in 1958:

Operation room:

[Fred901]

RAF Tangmere:

Tangmere in 1944:

 

A diagram designed by DD_Fenrir, a big thank you to him:

the airfield had belfast trust hangars like Kenley arranged as follows:

1930s

Royal Air Force Museum Tangmere:

Most of these hangars were destroyed on August 16, 1940 by a raid led by stukas.

Belfast trust hangar plan:

Tangmere control tower:

During WW2, on all English airfields, all buildings (Hangars, control tower, staff buildings...) were painted in two-tone camouflage like this:

Hawkinge airfield during Battle of Britain with camouflaged belfast trust hangars:

 

RAF Ford:

DD-Fenrir already talked about it at the beginning of the post so just a few more photos:

Ford (Yapton) October 1942:

Aerial view circa 1933:

[Fred901]

Hello,

Today, West Malling:

Hangar type J and control tower:

Control Tower:

 

Croydon:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Control Tower:

Edited November 2, 2022 by Fred901

[Fred901]

Hi,

Thorney Island June 1943:

In yellow, Blister Hangar

In red, Hangar type C

Hangar type C Thorney Island:

Thorney Island 1976:

Stoney Cross:

http://www.newforestexplorersguide.co.uk/heritage/history-in-the-landscape/second-world-war-airfields-stoney-cross-in-detail.html

https://newforestguide.uk/history/new-forest-airfields/stoney-cross/raf-stoney-cross/

 

Suggestion: Westhampnett

Westhampnett was a satellite airfield of RAF Tangmere during the Battle of Britain. This airfield was used throughout the Second World War. In June 1944 it housed the 184 squadron equipped with Typhoon MK1b. I think it would be interesting to model it on the Normandy 2 map.

In yellow Blister hangar

 

RAF Odiham:

In yelow, three Hangars Type C

RAF Odiham 1993:

RAF Friston:

In red, Blister Hangar

Edited November 5, 2022 by Fred901

[Fred901]

 

Hi,

Creil:

In red runways in service today

 

Hangars covered with camouflage nets used on most Luftwaffe airfields in France:

 

 

Velizy-Villacoublay:

https://www.anciens-aerodromes.com/?p=25475

In red runways in service today :

 

Guyancourt:

https://forgottenairfields.com/airfield-guyancourt-1515.html

circa 1930's:

September 1945:

 

In the red frames, dispersal areas for aircraft:

1955:

 

Beauvais-Tille:

In red, runways in service today:

 

Dreux-Vernouillet:

https://www.anciens-aerodromes.com/AtlasDGACOct16/html/aero213.htm

 

 

Dreux on August 8, 1944:

In yellow, Hangar Type "Double-Tonneaux"

This type of hangar was very common on French airfields during the Second World War.

"Double-Tonneaux" type hangar seen here at Besançon-Thise aerodrome not far from my home:

 

Hangar structure:

https://hangars.anciens-aerodromes.com/?page_id=12

Edited November 8, 2022 by Fred901

[Fred901]

Hi,

Triqueville:

https://b26.com/marauderman/ah/triqueville_airfield.htm

 

Poix-Croixrault:

https://www.forgottenairfields.com/airfield-poix-en-picardie-1121.html

Edited November 7, 2022 by Fred901

[Fred901]

Hi,

I would like to come back to Orly: The layout of the tracks is well done, well done! On the screenshot at the bottom I added a yellow oval where 2 hangars are located. In reality, these sheds were of the "Double-Tonneaux" type (see Dreux above).

In 1949, this "Double-tonneaux" hangar is visible in "6" on the lower diagram:

 

Dinan-Trelivan:

June 1942:

 

Before war:

1950's:

null

Airfield today:

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Fred901

[Fred901]

Hi,

Maupertus June 14th, 1944:

 

Maupertus 1950's:

 

Maupertus today:

 

Cormeilles-en-Vexin August 14th, 1944:

In red, runways in service today:

Cormeilles-en-Vexin 1950's:

Cormeilles-en-Vexin today:

Edited November 10, 2022 by Fred901

[Fred901]

Hi,

Caen-Carpiquet:

https://www.materielsterrestres39-45.fr/fr/index.php/tout-guerre-aerienne/54-france-guerre-aerienne/247-caen-carpiquet

May 28th, 1944:

 

Hangars type "Double-Tonneaux":

Evreux-Fauville:

 

https://www.anciens-aerodromes.com/?p=25057

West part of the airfield:

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Fred901

[Fred901]

Hi,

Conches-en-Ouche:

https://www.anciens-aerodromes.com/?p=25045

https://forgottenairfields.com/airfield-conches-en-ouche-closed-1112.html

 

Suggestion: Saint-Andre-de l'Eure:

At the end of May 1944, the aerodrome welcomed part of the I/KG51 equipped with Ju-88.

https://forgottenairfields.com/airfield-saint-andree-de-leure-1113.html

 

Saint-Andre de l'Eure today:

 

[Fred901]

Farnborough 1950:

 

Deanland:

 

Heathrow:

http://exceptthekylesandwesternisles.blogspot.com/2015/09/heathrow-in-1950s-60s.html

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Fred901

[Fred901]

Hello everyone,

Of course, I bought the Normandy 2 map and I find it magnificent!

I also notice that the English and French airfields are not all correctly made.

On a map like Syria or Persian gulf for example, i.e. a map nowadays it is easy to represent the runways and taxiways of each airfield, it is true on old maps it is not always easy to find plans or photos, but I think I have provided a lot of them so that these aerodromes are made as historically as possible!
It's really a shame and I urge the developers to correct this flaw!

First let's see "Conches-en Ouches" airfield:

 

 

The layout of the runways and taxiways is downright wrong! This is a southern part of the Evreux Fauville aerodrome!!

This is what Conches should look like:

 

 

Attention ! Runways, taxiways and aircraft parking areas were made of concrete slabs.

It should also be noted that there were no trees or bushes between the runways and the taxiways as you did in Saint-Andre-De-l'Eure. It's wrong !

I also noticed that on most runways there are white lines in the middle, there weren't any on all these airfields at that time.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Fred901

[Spuks]

4 hours ago, Fred901 said:

not all correctly

By the way Evreux-Fauville takeoff runway is not orientated corectly, alignment should be: first runway 1645 meters aligned NE/SW, second 1600 meters aligned E/W.

Since this is a flight simulator, I think airfields are the second most important thing after the airplane. It would be great if Ugra-Media recreated the airfields as accurately as possible.

[Fred901]

Yes you are right, runways of Evreux are misdirected.  I will talk about it in my next post.

I would also like Ugra Media to make us airfields as faithfully as possible!  I have already given a lot of information in this post.  and I have quite a few others to provide on all the airfields on the map.

In 1944, many airfields in France were simple fields without hard construction, without convenience, they were filled aerodromes after the landing of the allies.  German's planes were parked at the edge of forests or under camouflage nets.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Fred901

[Cliffhanger31]

Couldn’t agree more @Fred901. Like Spuks mentioned, airfields are where we spend the majority of our time on the ground, and they deserve as much attention to detail as other landmarks on the map. Thanks to Fred’s excellent thread here, the burden of research is almost entirely lifted. 

[Fred901]

Beaumont-Le-Roger:

 

 

 

 

In yellow grass runways. Aircraft parking areas and taxiways in cement pavement.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Fred901

[Fred901]

Hello everyone,

 I did not have time to provide photos and plans of the airfields present on the Normandy 2 maps. I will try to do my best.

 In the DCS newsletter of Friday May 26, 2023, I learned that the developers are improving the airfields.

 In the meantime, it would be necessary, if it is not in progress, to remove all the trees and bushes which are on the airfields !  It would also be necessary not to place so many control towers!  In general, there was only one on the permanent airfields or not at all like on the English and American ALGs in England and Normandy!  This would free up some space on the map.  (to create other important airfields for example!) I will provide a map of the airfields in England that were used for the Normandy landings.

 I think this map has a lot of potential !  She is very beautiful.  But I sincerely think that making the most historic airfields possible would be of great interest and would make it the most beautiful WW2 map of DCS!

 Thank you to the developers for this magnificent map and good luck for the future !

Edited May 31, 2023 by Fred901

[Sutts99]

Nice job on the map guys.

WWII runways didn't have white lines painted down the middle of them.  I haven't seen a single period wartime photo showing such a feature.

[Fred901]

Hello everyone,
As promised the airfields map of the 2nd TAF and the ADGB (Air Defence of Great Britain) on D-Day:

Edited June 1, 2023 by Fred901

[Cliffhanger31]

Great map Fred! I thought I would add this map of 9th USAAF bases in the Southern UK. Taken together these maps detail the locations of all the important airfields in the region during 1944.

[DD_Fenrir]

I have collated the above information and some other sources to present an image of all the potential UK airfield sites that would have existed within or very close to the detailed area boundary as defined by Ugra Media:

 

As we can see there are a total of 75 UK airfields that could legitimately appear on the Normandy map in the time frame within - or very close - to the detailed area.

Currently 13 of these are featured already.

However, before you start banging your fist on the table and demanding all of them to be included...

It must be considered that there may well be an airfield budget for any given map; memory will have to be allocated for runway headings, lengths & altitudes, spawn points and taxi routes, before you even get to the business of rendering the objects in a 3D environment.

Therefore, as much as we'd all like to see all these airfields present, it is likely that that could well be impossible just from game engine limitations. Not only that but the R&D time to build all of these could well be prohibitive, so manage your expectations accordingly.

Given that there are a number of airfields which have little or no relevance to the daylight tactical air ops meta that DCS WW2 inhabits currently, it would probably be wise to prioritise the fighter/fighter-bomber fields first, look at the bomber fields secondary, recon and transport fields tertiary and others at the bottom of the list.

That said, something like Brooklands, the site of the famous banked turn racing track and Vickers works where Hurricanes and Wellingtons (amongst others) were produced, would be an amazing geographical feature and a valid target for defence. Similar could apply to Eastleigh, which as well as being a Fleet Air Arm training base was also the assembly and test flying airfield for Supermarine...

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by DD_Fenrir

[Cliffhanger31]

Great work @DD_Fenrir! I agree that all 75 is likely not possible for several reasons. However in my opinion adding the airfields of the 2nd TAF, 9th USAAF, and a few of the ADGB airfields to the map would allow for endless mission/campaign creation for a variety of different aircraft. These organizations account for the majority of air power that operated over the Normandy area in the summer of 1944. Thus, I believe they offer the best gameplay possibilities compared to airfields that would only offer novelty missions such as Airborne, Photo Recon, or transport. 

[Fred901]

There is a French imagery site on maps from the 1950s:

https://remonterletemps.ign.fr/

Although the maps were taken about ten years after the end of the Second World War, this site is very interesting because we still find a lot of information on German airfields in France.

For example, Dieppe Saint-Aubin:

 

 

 

here is an example of the realization of the airfield by the IL-2 GB team on the Normandy map:

Although I find the airfields well done on this IL-2 GB map, I do not judge at all the work of Ugra Media on the DCS Normandy 2 map, it's just to have an overview of the airfield and to help the devs!