Force to be applied on the stick of real fighter

[lricca]

Hi,

I have made an extension for my thrustmaster warthog and, of course, the force to be applied to the stick has decreased. I'm wondering what are the real forces I must apply on a real fighter? I understand that the force on the control surfaces encrease with the speed of the aircraft, but there are some indications about minimum and maximum force for the aircraft like F/A-18, M2000-C, F5...

 

Thank in advice

Luigi

 

Inviato dal mio SM-G960F utilizzando Tapatalk

 

 

[Rifter]

Perhaps the stickforces for an F-15 gives you an impression.

[Mars Exulte]

2 hours ago, lricca said:

I'm wondering what are the real forces I must apply on a real fighter? I understand that the force on the control surfaces encrease with the speed of the aircraft

 This is a factor on direct linkage setups, like old WWII warbirds, or cheaper civilian aircraft, where you are physically using the stick to move the control surfaces and are opposed by airflow. Most of the aircraft we have use hydraulic controls, so the resistance is artificial. You could fly them with a mouse and keyboard, but they do it this way to help prevent overcorrections and give feedback to the pilot.

That said, a quick Google search says the F-18's force required at full aft deflection is about 40lbs, and 13lbs laterally. Bear in mind, it is not a desktop stick and is relatively long (18''). So, some force, but not a HUGE amount.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Mars Exulte

[lricca]

I suppose that the artificially recreated feel is similar to a classical reversible linkage.
I know that the length of the real stick is more than mine (25cm circa), so I have asked the force on the stick and not the torque.

Thanks for the graphic of the f15 and the informations on the f18.

Inviato dal mio SM-G960F utilizzando Tapatalk

[Dragon1-1]

IIRC, the forces have been standardized based on the P-51, although I'm not sure at what speed. I think that at normal combat speeds, a classical linkage would be in the same ballpark.

[=DROOPY=]

On 11/2/2022 at 1:18 PM, Mars Exulte said:

 This is a factor on direct linkage setups, like old WWII warbirds, or cheaper civilian aircraft, where you are physically using the stick to move the control surfaces and are opposed by airflow. Most of the aircraft we have use hydraulic controls, so the resistance is artificial. You could fly them with a mouse and keyboard, but they do it this way to help prevent overcorrections and give feedback to the pilot.

That said, a quick Google search says the F-18's force required at full aft deflection is about 40lbs, and 13lbs laterally. Bear in mind, it is not a desktop stick and is relatively long (18''). So, some force, but not a HUGE amount.

I seen a documentary a while back... I believe it was "Blue Angels- A Year In the Life", and one example of the physical tests to be eligible to join the Blue Angels, is the stamina to maintain 40lbs of aft pull on the stick for a typical show duration. Were talking men with football player physiques, that appear to be at their peak of physical fitness, sweating like they're running a marathon in Death Valley in July.

[Mars Exulte]

Yeah, of course. Exerting prolonged force is one thing and just doing it a moment another. My point was merely that it shouldn't be like the stick is in mud, most people can manage forty pounds without too much trouble, so if you're struggling to move your stick around you've probably gone overboard.

[Seaeagle]

19 hours ago, =DROOPY= said:

I seen a documentary a while back... I believe it was "Blue Angels- A Year In the Life", and one example of the physical tests to be eligible to join the Blue Angels, is the stamina to maintain 40lbs of aft pull on the stick for a typical show duration. Were talking men with football player physiques, that appear to be at their peak of physical fitness, sweating like they're running a marathon in Death Valley in July.

IIRC for more precise controlability, the Blue Angels F-18s have a modified flight control system with springs which require quite a lot of extra force to be applied to the stick - I also heard that they don't wear G-suits when flying their displays, so I can well imagine that the physical requirements are extreme.

[arnokm]

M2000-C Aft Stick:

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[BitMaster]

So the French Pilots have the strongest arms ?  That's a very strong pull from 80-100% , wow !

For a training, take my 1-year old Rottweiler-Ridgeback ( some Husky and Dobermann in the mix as well ) for a walk...after a month you will pull 65kg like nothing, over and over again for 90min.

Dog vs. Stick   

[Aquorys]

In the case of the F-16, the stick is force-sensing, it moves only about a quarter of an inch (~6 mm).

The force required for pitch-up vs. pitch-down vs. roll is asymmetric, and the force required for maximum pitch/roll is different depending on the FLCS gains (mostly because maxium pitch/roll is different depending on the gains).
For max pitch-up, it's roughly 25 lbs / 11 kg, max pitch-down about 2/3rd of that, and max roll about 70%.

[Bremspropeller]

On 12/1/2022 at 1:04 PM, BitMaster said:

So the French Pilots have the strongest arms ?  That's a very strong pull from 80-100% , wow !

That's the pull required toget from 9g (elastic stop) to 11g IIRC. Kind of similar to hitting the paddle on the Hornet.