Computer shuts down after about 30 minutes of DCS

[sepruda]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

Ok, understood.
FWIW, I completely disagree with your dealer there.

If you're buying a higher wattage PSU, definitely get 1000W instead of 850W, prices now got too close between them to not get the bigger wattage one.

There are some good quality and very reasonably priced 1000W 80+Gold PSUs worth looking for. 
For example, and among others, check the Corsair RMX 1000w, EVGA SuperNOVA GT (or G6) 1000w, Seasonic Prime (Gold) GX1000 and SuperFlower Leadex (Gold) 1000w.

For the motherboard, there are good mid range B550 and X570 motherboards with which that Ryzen 9 5950X will work great, and not outrageously expensive.
I'm a sucker for MSI, so I'd recommend the MSI B550 Tomahawk and MSI X570 Tomahawk, but the Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro and X570 Aorus Pro are also good choices.  

 

Thanks! If my next round of tests prove it's a power issue, I'll definitely look at your suggestions  And if it comes to that, I'll look at your MB recommendations, though I'd rather not spend any more time installing components right now  



 

46 minutes ago, Hiob said:

You can monitor the VRM temps with HWinfo e.g. (and any other hardware monitoring software), provided that the Mainboard has a sensor for that. @LucShep is right. The power stages on your MB aren't the beefiest ones, but that shouldn't be an issue on a low load scenario like DCS in my opinion. You should however make sure, that you have the latest firmware for your MB. Also, you could reset your BIOS to the failsafe values, which will also deactivate the XMP on your memory. You won't get the highest performance, but it will run stable.
Raising the Voltage slightly as suggested should also increase stability.

You could also deactivate one CCD in the bios (depending on the bios), which will make your 5950X an 5800X effectively.

I don't think I have looked at upgrading the firmware for my MB, wasn't aware that was something you could, so I'll look into that. 

I have some more steps I can try:
- Reset BIOS to failsafe
- Look into deactivating one CCD in bios 

I don't mind not having 100% value of the 5950X, I will some day upgrade my MB, preferable just not right now  

[Hiob]

11 minutes ago, sepruda said:

Thanks! If my next round of tests prove it's a power issue, I'll definitely look at your suggestions  And if it comes to that, I'll look at your MB recommendations, though I'd rather not spend any more time installing components right now  



 

I don't think I have looked at upgrading the firmware for my MB, wasn't aware that was something you could, so I'll look into that. 

I have some more steps I can try:
- Reset BIOS to failsafe
- Look into deactivating one CCD in bios 

I don't mind not having 100% value of the 5950X, I will some day upgrade my MB, preferable just not right now  

Mind that I don't know if every BIOS has the CCD option. The latest firmware on a B450 is probably mandatory to reliably operate a 5950X.

https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/tuf-gaming/tuf-b450m-plus-gaming/helpdesk_bios/

Check if this is the correct MB, they have a couple of similar ones.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Hiob

[sepruda]

2 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Mind that I don't know if every BIOS has the CCD option. The latest firmware on a B450 is probably mandatory to reliably operate a 5950X.

https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/tuf-gaming/tuf-b450m-plus-gaming/helpdesk_bios/

Check if this is the correct MB, they have a couple of similar ones.

 

Oh of course, yes I already upgraded the BIOS to the latest one, that was required before installing the 5950X. 

 

[BitMaster]

It could be a simple PSU fan failing, slowly overheating your PSU.

Been there with my 1st AXi-1200 which had a defect off the shelf. It ran flawless in Desktop use, no real load & heat, but shut down the PC after some time gaming. 

Verify your PSU fan is working and that the PSU case is not hot by the touch after it shut down by itself. If it is, you found the bad part.

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, sepruda said:

Thanks! If my next round of tests prove it's a power issue, I'll definitely look at your suggestions  And if it comes to that, I'll look at your MB recommendations, though I'd rather not spend any more time installing components right now  



 

I don't think I have looked at upgrading the firmware for my MB, wasn't aware that was something you could, so I'll look into that. 

I have some more steps I can try:
- Reset BIOS to failsafe
- Look into deactivating one CCD in bios 

I don't mind not having 100% value of the 5950X, I will some day upgrade my MB, preferable just not right now  

Sure, no problem.

I forgot to add this to my previous post - if you wish to monitor your motherboard VRM temps you have the already suggested HWINFO:  https://www.hwinfo.com/

Among all the values listed in it, there will be one, down in the motherboard section, called "VR MOS" (some motherboards list it simply as "MOS").
That's the VRM temperature, though you need to add 15ºC to what appears there (value is usually offset that way for reasons I don't know) for "real" temperature.

You may wish to try some stress test on CPU with HWINFO open, and monitor the temps value in that "VR MOS" (some use Prime95 for stress test but it may be excessive, so four or five consecutive rounds of Cinebench R20 or R23 all-core benchmark may also work, for example).
Add 15ºC to the maximum value that appears in there, and you have the real temperature in the VRM - my bet is that it'll surpass 95ºC if CPU is stressed! 

Edited November 15, 2022 by LucShep

[Hiob]

7 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Sure, no problem.

I forgot to add this to my previous post - you can monitor your motherboard VRM temps with the already suggested HWINFO:  https://www.hwinfo.com/

Among all the values listed in it, there will be one down in the motherboard section called "VR MOS" (some motherboards list it simply as "MOS").
That's the VRM temperature of your motherboard, though you need to add 15ºC to what appears there (value is usually offset that way for reasons I don't know).

So, do some stress test on CPU with HWINFO open, and monitor the temps value in that "VR MOS" (some use Prime95 for stress test but it may be excessive, so four consecutive rounds of Cinebench R20 or R23 all-core benchmark may also work, for example).
Add 15ºC to the value that appears in there, and you have the real temperature in the VRM - my bet is that it'll surpass 95ºC if CPU is stressed! 

 

Still, that is for heavy all-core workloads like Prime or Cinebench. With only two cores under significant load at a time whilst playing DCS, the VRM should be fine, don't you think?
Also, this is not a top tier MB or chipset, but it is an ASUS TUF after all. Not the crapiest of all MB out there in my book.

I won't disregard your suggestions, but personally I don't think the VRM is at fault here.

[LucShep]

49 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Still, that is for heavy all-core workloads like Prime or Cinebench. With only two cores under significant load at a time whilst playing DCS, the VRM should be fine, don't you think?
Also, this is not a top tier MB or chipset, but it is an ASUS TUF after all. Not the crapiest of all MB out there in my book.

I won't disregard your suggestions, but personally I don't think the VRM is at fault here.

I respect your opinion, but if that system is hitting 95ºC in the VRM with some simple Cinebench R20 or R23 benchmarking, then it is not fit for any heavy gaming use (even DCS with it's limited one/dual core use).

As said, it could be it and/or other factors (combined or not) as already listed previously. Like the PSU having the OCP triggered, RAM instability, could be even wrong BIOS settings (or BIOS version), or even faults in cooling causing system shutdown due too high temps.

Edited November 15, 2022 by LucShep

[Hiob]

I haven't watched it. No time.

But if there is anything to know about this MB Buildzoid will have it covered. Also I recommend his Videos and Channel for learning about Computer Stuff!

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, Hiob said:

I haven't watched it. No time.

But if there is anything to know about this MB Buildzoid will have it covered. Also I recommend his Videos and Channel for learning about Computer Stuff!

Yes, indeed.

He says the obvious about a 4-phase VRM motherboard, which is what is - usually fit for a six-core Ryzen at most, eight-core Ryzen being already over borderline limit.
Note that the OP is using a sixteen-core(!) Ryzen in it....

Watch that video at 4.44... it's all there.

Edited November 15, 2022 by LucShep

[Hiob]

Do you know if the TUF Bios can deactivate one CCD? If yes, that should relieve the stress on the system until he can change whatever component he feels fit.

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, Hiob said:

Do you know if the TUF Bios can deactivate one CCD? If yes, that should relieve the stress on the system until he can change whatever component he feels fit.

 Unfortunately there's no mention about BIOS specific settings on the user Manual.
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM4/TUF_GAMING_B450M-PRO_II/E17210_TUF_GAMING_B450M-PLUS_II_UM_web_updated082820.pdf


If not possible throught the motherboard BIOS, I believe one can disable a select number of CPU cores using AMD Ryzen Master software: 
https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/ryzen-master

See page 20 of its manual:   https://www.amd.com/system/files/2017-03/AMD-Ryzen-Processor-and-AMD-Ryzen-Master-Overclocking-Users-Guide.pdf

Edited November 15, 2022 by LucShep

[sepruda]

4 hours ago, BitMaster said:

It could be a simple PSU fan failing, slowly overheating your PSU.

Been there with my 1st AXi-1200 which had a defect off the shelf. It ran flawless in Desktop use, no real load & heat, but shut down the PC after some time gaming. 

Verify your PSU fan is working and that the PSU case is not hot by the touch after it shut down by itself. If it is, you found the bad part.

I don't believe it! Pulled the PSU out and ran the test again, the fan has zero movement! Seems I've found the culprit

Of course it has zero RPM mode, so I'm gonna keep the test running and verify that it never starts up.

Edited November 15, 2022 by sepruda

[Hiob]

Back to square one!

[sepruda]

On the contrary, now I can RMA it and maybe improve w

[SkateZilla]

On 11/14/2022 at 5:50 AM, sepruda said:

Hello, 

I recently upgraded my system (only to improve my DCS experience!), and unfortunately now my PC completely shuts down (without rebotting) after about 30 minutes of time flying. It doesn't matter what I do, just having the plane sit cold and dark for 30 minutes will lead to the same result. 

I first thought it was a heating issue, my CPU was peaking at about 90 celsius (even though it should be able to take that). So I installed an additional fan for the CPU and put in extra cabinet fans. That didn't change anything though. 

Then I tried reinstalling DCS, I tried going back a version, I've updated my Bios and GPU drivers. This only happens for me when playing DCS. 

I've read similar threads, and tried to follow the suggestions there (like this one) - the conclusions of both of those were the PSU that was faulty. 

That of course might be the case for me as well, but I upgraded my PSU in august (80+ gold certified), and it was working fine before I upgraded my CPU. 

Any help would be much appreciated!

My specs: 

TUF GAMING B450M-PLUS II MB
AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
Noctua NH-D15 CPU cooler
4 x Corsair Vengeance 8GB DDR4-3200 RAM
Asus GeForce® RTX 3080 10GB TUF
Corsair RM750 750W 80+ Gold PSU
Intel 665P 1TB M.2 NVMe SSD
Corsair Carbide 275R Tempered Glass Black VG Edition Cabinet
Windows 11

 

I know i'm late to the party but I'll Break it down, assuming you aren't overclocking,
 

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
-145w Peak w/o Raised Clocks.

TUF GAMING B450M-PLUS II MB
-145w Peak w/ all components enabled (On Board Sound, NIC etc)
  4+2 VRM Array, will limit how much power it will be able to cleanly feed to the CPU before it becomes unstable.

Asus GeForce® RTX 3080 10GB TUF
-300w @ Stock Clocks, 350w+ Overclocked.
 

4 x Corsair Vengeance 8GB DDR4-3200 RAM
-15w just to be safe, DDR4 Avgs 11w to 16w depending on chip count and speed.

Corsair RM750 750W 80+ Gold PSU
-Main factor here is AGE, as the unit ages, peak power output will go down, as well as efficiency in how power draw sessions.

605w For the system Core, not counting extra drives, fans, USB Devices etc etc. or Any type of Overclocking done either by factory or user.

Looking at that Alone, your are right at the threshold for problems, even with a new PSU.

If you can get Corsair Link, and monitor PSU Stats as you play, 

Either the unit is being overloaded, or it's overheating and shutting itself off at max temp.


 

[sepruda]

2 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

I know i'm late to the party but I'll Break it down, assuming you aren't overclocking,
 

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
-145w Peak w/o Raised Clocks.

TUF GAMING B450M-PLUS II MB
-145w Peak w/ all components enabled (On Board Sound, NIC etc)
  4+2 VRM Array, will limit how much power it will be able to cleanly feed to the CPU before it becomes unstable.

Asus GeForce® RTX 3080 10GB TUF
-300w @ Stock Clocks, 350w+ Overclocked.
 

4 x Corsair Vengeance 8GB DDR4-3200 RAM
-15w just to be safe, DDR4 Avgs 11w to 16w depending on chip count and speed.

Corsair RM750 750W 80+ Gold PSU
-Main factor here is AGE, as the unit ages, peak power output will go down, as well as efficiency in how power draw sessions.

605w For the system Core, not counting extra drives, fans, USB Devices etc etc. or Any type of Overclocking done either by factory or user.

Looking at that Alone, your are right at the threshold for problems, even with a new PSU.

If you can get Corsair Link, and monitor PSU Stats as you play, 

Either the unit is being overloaded, or it's overheating and shutting itself off at max temp.


 

Thank you for the breakdown. The issue seems indeed from the PSU, but not from too little power, but the PSU overheating due to a faulty fan (it doesn't run at all). I will however get more voltage when I return it (I bought it just a couple of months ago).

So once again, like the other threads PSU is at fault!

Thank you very much everyone for all your suggestions

Edited November 15, 2022 by sepruda

[Hiob]

If you get a new PSU I would wholeheartedly recommend BeQuiet PSUs. They are from exceptional build quality. I have the third in a row now (upgrading the watts, 1000W Straight Power 11 atm) and they never failed me. The fans are inaudible, if they even ever run, which they very seldom do. (From the dust build up, the 750W in my last gaming rig never ran.).

I'm a bit neurotic with noises from my rig.

The only time I bought a different PSU (because 1000W wasn't available from BeQuiet at the time), I regreted immedietly and later bought the Straight Power anyway.

Don't go for the top tier line (Dark Power), the middle tier line (Sraight Power) is plenty sufficiant. Whilst I would hold my hand to the fire that neither a 850 nor a 750 would have a problem with you setup, I would generally recommend to add 50% to what your setup would realisticly need in the worst case (500-600W in your case - so 850-1000W PSU).

Edited November 16, 2022 by Hiob

[BitMaster]

So it seems I was right with a faulty fan.

Now, follow Skatezilla's advice and get a BIGGER Powersupply.

 

You never cut corners on a PSU, you will suffer if you do out of my experience.

 

edit* ....and yes, the Mobo VRM is borderline critical. You don't pair a V12-800BHP engine with a Fiat 500 Chassis, same applies for your CPU and Board.

Epic mismatch

Edited November 16, 2022 by BitMaster

[Brzi_Joe]

Today Nvidia has update, try it. As I have similar problems like you (restart in mid game), and after 1-2 months of going trough internet and trying to solve it, I wish that we booth solve our problems with driver update

At my rig it is inconsistent, I can play 2 days, and then 1 day not. Then again I can play 3 hours with overclock, and next day again restarts even with undervolting my GPU. 

And I checked everything possible (temps and cooling, cables reseating, disks, win system, game, drivers, ram, bios xps and without, overclock and opposite... Next I will send my psu back to Bequiet for checking. If that is not it, I have to buy new components, 1 by 1...).

I will follow this tread, and wish us booth luck with it.

 

[Hiob]

3 minutes ago, Brzi_Joe said:

Today Nvidia has update, try it. As I have similar problems like you (restart in mid game), and after 1-2 months of going trough internet and trying to solve it, I wish that we booth solve our problems with driver update

At my rig it is inconsistent, I can play 2 days, and then 1 day not. Then again I can play 3 hours with overclock, and next day again restarts even with undervolting my GPU. 

And I checked everything possible (temps and cooling, cables reseating, disks, win system, game, drivers, ram, bios xps and without, overclock and opposite... Next I will send my psu back to Bequiet for checking. If that is not it, I have to buy new components, 1 by 1...).

I will follow this tread, and wish us booth luck with it.

 

Would be interesting to know what kind of hardware you are talking about.

Mind that any kind of „tuning“ (undervolt and/or overclock) can introduce instabilities. Some hardware simply don’t have the headroom for meaningful OC (silicon lottery).

Not that a PSU can’t be the source of trouble (obviously, ask OP) - especially when it’s too weak.

[Brzi_Joe]

MBO ASUS ROG STRIX H370-F GAMING
CPU i7-8700k
RAM 32gb ddr-4 (2666MHz max because of MBO, but sticks are 3000)
NVIDIA NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090
PSU Bequiet straight power 11, 850W
2x ssd
win10
VR Pimax 8kx

Up to few months ago I had no problems except occasionaly wih Pimax vr, then I changed GPU to 3090, and emediatelly PSU (old was 600w, new 850). Then came summer, and I got thermal problems occasionaly. After summer I still have problems, shutdowns and restarts in mid game, mostly in DCS, sometimes IL-2 and other games.

I can not replicate that restart with benchmarking tools, not even with OCCT, and OCCT brings my CPU to 100C (in gaming it is 80-82C).

PSU is my suspect. I have 2 cables to my GPU, from 2 rails. It suppose to work, but... And then everything works again 1-2 days, without restarts, and I am then mad, do not know what to do.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Brzi_Joe

[BitMaster]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Brzi_Joe:

 

I can not replicate that restart with benchmarking tools, not even with OCCT, and OCCT brings my CPU to 100C (in gaming it is 80-82C).

 

 

It's likely not the CPU that's causing an issue. Games usually do not tax all cores to the max like any good stress tool does. Most test suites do not test CPU and GPU, or just the GPU.

In games, if the CPU ain't too weak your GPU will always try to run at it's fullest potential unless otherwise told to limit fps. That's where the most constant power draw and heat comes from. Modern CPU almost fall asleep while gaming on 1-2 cores and idling on all others, the GPU no so.

[Hiob]

13 hours ago, Brzi_Joe said:

MBO ASUS ROG STRIX H370-F GAMING
CPU i7-8700k
RAM 32gb ddr-4 (2666MHz max because of MBO, but sticks are 3000)
NVIDIA NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090
PSU Bequiet straight power 11, 850W
2x ssd
win10
VR Pimax 8kx

Up to few months ago I had no problems except occasionaly wih Pimax vr, then I changed GPU to 3090, and emediatelly PSU (old was 600w, new 850). Then came summer, and I got thermal problems occasionaly. After summer I still have problems, shutdowns and restarts in mid game, mostly in DCS, sometimes IL-2 and other games.

I can not replicate that restart with benchmarking tools, not even with OCCT, and OCCT brings my CPU to 100C (in gaming it is 80-82C).

PSU is my suspect. I have 2 cables to my GPU, from 2 rails. It suppose to work, but... And then everything works again 1-2 days, without restarts, and I am then mad, do not know what to do.

 

There's ALWAYS the chance of failing hardware. Of course that's also true for a premium PSU. However I wouldn't bet my money on the PSU in this case.
Your CPU is rather old. Though @BitMaster is correct on the CPU load whilst gaming - I would at least try to relieve any OC stress on the CPU and check/ reapply the thermal compound.

Can you provike a restart with GPU-load like Kombustor?

Since this is a very beefy GPU for an otherwise "senior" system, I would also limit it's powerdraw for testing.

[Brzi_Joe]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Hiob:

Can you provike a restart with GPU-load like Kombustor?

No, I can not provoke my issue with Kombustor. Maybe because of my 1080p monitor, it can not stress it enough. 

As I said, the restarts comes in DCS, and not often in other games. It happens mostly when I enter full mp server, with many players and with heavy rain, and usually when I select team, aircraft, and clict to spawn my plane - then 50% of time is restart. Other 50% are really in mid flight.

PS: CPU thermal paste reapplied 15 days ago.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Brzi_Joe

[Hiob]

10 minutes ago, Brzi_Joe said:

No, I can not provoke my issue with Kombustor. Maybe because of my 1080p monitor, it can not stress it enough. 

As I said, the restarts comes in DCS, and not often in other games. It happens mostly when I enter full mp server, with many players and with heavy rain, and usually when I select team, aircraft, and clict to spawn my plane - then 50% of time is restart. Other 50% are really in mid flight.

Have you by any chance overclocked your Geforce via Afterburner? It is just an off chance but I experienced that DCS is extremely sensitive with VRAM overclocking.

While I can overclock it (a 3080) 1000 MHz and successfully run 3DMark, DCS will reliable crash even with 300 MHz and I stopped overclocking the VRAM alltogether, because even 100 MHz would occasionally crash it (and it doesn't bring any performance anyway).

Edited November 17, 2022 by Hiob