RTX 4080 & 7900 XTX/XT benchmarks DCS

[SkateZilla]

I made a little image for those unfamiliar with TSMC's production,
12 Inch (300mm) wafers,
with AD102, AD103, AD104 Chips laid out over the wafer, and this was being generous with spacing.
AD102 you Get 96
AD103 you get 245
AD104 you get 394

Assuming a few defects, lets say you get 385 working samples, $45 Each

If The AD104 Chip Costs ~ $45 Per Chip, 
The Micron GDDR6X is Roughly ~$28 Per Chip (2GB Chips), x 6 for 12GB = ~ 168 for VRAM

So ~$213, 
Now Add PCB Board, Components (VRM, Various Capacitors, HDMI and DisplayPORT Connectors etc)
~ $75 (and that's being generous with some components, w/ retail cost, I assume they have a contract to get the VRM Mosfets, and Connectors at bulk prices).
Add another $100 for the Cooling Solution.

~$375-$390 Manufacturing cost
 

Edited January 4, 2023 by SkateZilla

[Andrei]

2 hours ago, kiss4luna said:

Well I understand but that's all I have and this config is higher end than 7900 + 4080 so I think the performance may represent something useful.

Thanks to AMD naming conventions I've misinterpreted your post. I thought with 7950 you're talking about GPU, while you probably meant CPU

Edited January 4, 2023 by Andrei

[SkateZilla]

34 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

4070Ti....What they wanted 4080 12Gb to be and what the 4060Ti should have been. All at typical XX80 pricing. 

Current Nvidia Lovelace product stack:

XX90 — 4090

XX80 — NONE

XX70 — 4080 16Gb

XX60 — 4070Ti

I imagine the 4080Ti will be a cut down AD102 Chip.

Just now, Andrei said:

Thanks to AMD naming conventions I've misinterpreted your post. I thought you're talking about GPU, while you probably meant CPU

I can see it now.,
User: "Dcs is crashing all the time, and stuttering"
ED: "what is your system specs?"
User: "AMD 7900/7900"
 

[EightyDuce]

1 minute ago, SkateZilla said:

I imagine the 4080Ti will be a cut down AD102 Chip.

I would hope so. There's not much left of the AD103. 

[Andrei]

Well. Whatever happens in the GPU market last couple years, it was always end-users (gamers) who suffered. 

Pascal was the last decent value offering we've had on the market which we could actually get our hands on.
Turing was overpriced with RT and no real competition in high-end.
Ampere with RDNA 2 were decent, but then you've got the crypto boom and unless you're lucky and living in US, you could never get your hands on one of those at decent price.
Lovelace and RDNA 3 are overpriced again with both AMD and Nvidia trying to recover from crypto hangover capitalizing on gamers as well.

Life sucks, but have to get on with it

Edited January 4, 2023 by Andrei
typos

[SkateZilla]

 

[Bloodlet]

Still really wanting more documentation of how the RX 7900s are doing in VR without all the power consumption and heat defect noise. Hard to find anything recent that specifically addresses this. I've had both the 4080 and the 7900XTX in my cart a few times from various online retailers but I keep stopping myself in the end. I will also want to upgrade my monitor finally from 1080p and being able to save $200 for the XTX can go towards that monitor upgrade but not if it just sucks for VR.

[kiss4luna]

8 hours ago, Andrei said:

Thanks to AMD naming conventions I've misinterpreted your post. I thought with 7950 you're talking about GPU, while you probably meant CPU

 

Yeah, that's very confusing. Happens all the time.

[howie87]

When the RTX 3070 first dropped at £469 I thought it was pricey but was going to treat myself and upgrade from an RX480 8GB that I paid £180 for. That never happened as I couldn't ever find one close to MSRP and now they drop the RTX 4070Ti for £900... I just can't bring myself to pay those sort of prices for what is basically an upper mid tier card. 

[Flashman73]

On 12/22/2022 at 7:58 AM, evensis said:

Moore's Law is Dead sources have stated that the 7900XTX has at least 10% rasterisation performance across the board in the pipeline with driver improvements. Unfortunately no mention of VR performance in his videos and source leaks but they do expect to eek further performance out of RDNA3 beyond that 10%, but will be a wait and see. The 7900XTX is not performing anywhere near its design goals at the moment, and needs a significant amount of further driver work of which AMD sources are 'confident' that they will fix the issues with the drivers. Ultimately if this comes to fruition, then the 4080 really will be exceptionally poor value for money at it's current MSRP (even more beyond its poor value at this point) - buyers remorse will be a big thing.

Although just to chuck this out there, going from a 5900X to 7900X boosted my frame-rate average quite nicely, 75fps on the 5900X over Caucasus to 92fps avg on the 7900X (in the pit with a 3080); so certainly another route to consider if you are looking to improve performance. Ultimately i'm a developer so the 24 threads is useful to me and shaves enough time off for me where single generational jumps are economically viable, but for others who don't use the cores, the 7700X or the 5800X3D would be a good choice. Intel have brute forced their way to the top of the leader boards this year by rinsing your utility bills more so than the war is already doing, so factor the electricity average (another 100 watts during high load over the lifetime of the product) into the cost of the product. AMD on the other hand, forcing DDR5, makes the platform a high cost to move to. So it's swings and roundabouts.

I would wait a quarter and revisit, the GPU market is a mess at the moment. 

 

I am looking forward to seeing what improvement in performance will come with the upcoming release of the X3D 7xxx series CPUs.

[Wali763]

On 1/8/2023 at 2:14 AM, howie87 said:

When the RTX 3070 first dropped at £469 I thought it was pricey but was going to treat myself and upgrade from an RX480 8GB that I paid £180 for. That never happened as I couldn't ever find one close to MSRP and now they drop the RTX 4070Ti for £900... I just can't bring myself to pay those sort of prices for what is basically an upper mid tier card. 

Nvidia-Cards in the last two years never have reached the claimed MSRP except for the FE-editions. Even today 3070s and also 3080s (that already have a successor) are still 100e north of the MSRP.

Some leakers say, that this was intented all along by Nvidia, since they charged boardparners so much for the materials, that those could not afford to sell them close to MSRP. Some call that fake-MSRP.

But still Im quite optimistic, that thing could become better again. Seeing, that overpriced 4080, 3070TI and 7900XT do not sell well, might force Nvidia, AMD AND the dealers to lower prices. It seems many consumers are not willing to pay the inflated prices of the last two years.

Unfortunately the board-partners 7900XTXs have not yet reached the MRSP of the card offered on amd.com, which in Euros is about 1120,- right now. But some 7900XTs are already below the amd.com (MSRP) prices and also the 4080 is already dropped quite a lot (some even 50e below MSRP). Also 4080 FE-cards are obviously in stock, what never has been the case in the period of shortages.

I think the

4080 should be 900

the 4070TI 700

the 7900XTX 850 and 

the 7900XT 700 (and renamed 6800XT).

 

Hopefully consumers and the (maybe coming) recession can force manufacturers to lower their price to that level.

[D2k77]

Planning on upgrading from a 5800x and a 3070 which is not clearly not good enough for VR in DCS. Been reading all these threads and trying to work out my own budget.

 

5800x with a 4080 ok enough for decent frames? I know its not going to be perfect in a Quest 2 headset but its got to be better then what I'm currently experiencing.

Edited January 23, 2023 by D2k77

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, D2k77 said:

Planning on upgrading from a 5800x and a 3070 which is not clearly not good enough for VR in DCS. Been reading all these threads and trying to work out my own budget.

 

5800x with a 4080 ok enough for decent frames? I know its not going to be perfect in a Quest 2 headset but its got to be better then what I'm currently experiencing.

 

"Decent frames" is subjective. That being said, 4080 will on average be 2x faster than a 3070.

[dock999]

9 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

"Decent frames" is subjective. That being said, 4080 will on average be 2x faster than a 3070.

Probably  it will be more than 2 x . by looking at those posts  in those  forums  4080 is on average 2x faster than 3080.  If you want to known those card's performance in  VR, you may want to pay attention to 4K comparison among these cards.

Edited January 24, 2023 by dock999

[Thinder]

  

On 1/4/2023 at 4:33 PM, BitMaster said:

Seriously,

this is all getting pretty hilarious.

If that was the car company sector, heads would roll, but here, no signs of guilt or regret anywhere. How low can it go ?

Best example in a top industry?

Lockheed Martin with their F-35... Did you see head rolls since they went over budget by $165 billion (21 Nov 2022), failed to meet so many required specs that it takes hours to read the full report?

As far as I know, be it Nvidia or AMD, they work in a rather adverse environment with the results of COVID lock down and market restrictions, I'm not surprised they both hit hiccups and failed at production quality levels because they are selling ton more stuff than Lockheed Martin sells F-35.

Btw the Air Force reduced their required number and go for an upgraded version of the F-15, which is like digging a 1080Ti from the grave because the latest X or Y card is a pile of manure...

My two cents, before both manufacturers can work stable, it's gonna take some time, expect more Oooooops in the process (and more stupid bashing videos).

 

ps my RX 7900 XTX works just F.I.N.E and runs at full steam below 73°C

[EightyDuce]

21 hours ago, dock999 said:

Probably  it will be more than 2 x . by looking at those posts  in those  forums  4080 is on average 2x faster than 3080.  If you want to known those card's performance in  VR, you may want to pay attention to 4K comparison among these cards.

 

I haven't looked at DCS-specific for 3070 VS 4080, but looking at HWUB 4K 12 game average, 4080 is 1.5X performance of 3080 and 2X better than 3070.

Again, that's on average. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by EightyDuce
Edit for brainfart.

[dock999]

9 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

I haven't looked at DCS-specific for 3070 VS 4080, but looking at HWUB 4K 12 game average, 4080 is 34% better than 3080 and 50% better than 3070.

Again, that's on average. 

 

How do you calculate these figures?

My calculation according to the  information you provided .

4080 vs 3080: Eve : 52%  up , 1% low 50.8% up

4080 vs 3070: Eve 101.8% up . 1% low 95.7% up .

Am I right ?

Edited January 24, 2023 by dock999

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, dock999 said:

How do you calculate these figures?

My calculation according to the  information you provided .

4080 vs 3080: Eve : 52%  up , 1% low 50.8% up

4080 vs 3070: Eve 101.8% up . 1% low 95.7% up .

Am I right ?

 

You're right, haha.

I initially said 2x faster than 3070 in my first post which was correct, then apparently fell asleep in my head. 

So yeah, 2x faster than 3070 and 1.5x3080. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by EightyDuce

[Thinder]

I'm not a great fan of Youtube GPU/CPU tests, especially when you see how those gear are tested, much too often systems are not optimized for the GPU or CPU with mediocre RAM bounding and settings, keep a critical mind about it, it will spare you a lot of frustration time and perhaps money.

Anyway, what mattered to me was to get a system that would let me play DCS at 4K MSAA X2 with decent DCS settings and frame rates, and I managed to do just that with a GPU that cost 27% less than the cheapest 4090, runs flawlessy at temperatures below 73°C in all tests I conducted, all at 4K MSAA2.

My PC upgrade is finally achieved, I got 5 system fans plus a CPU fan, one of the system fans is located below the card, blowing upward, the two Noctua NF-A12x15 are 10mm slimmer than the average 120mm fans and can fit in front of the GPU, the lowest one is linked to the GPU and doesn't kick in under low load, my cabling is cleaner to maximize airflow.

Now the issues are something else, Microsoft automatic update conjob messed up my system entirely, I had to do fresh installs because of a Critical System Failure, couldn't repair, couldn't reset, once a fresh install achieved I was able to install all drivers Automatic Update replaced by Microsoft ones (all AMD drivers including GPU, chipsets and Realteck Audio)

I was warned by AMD (see my signature) through AMD Software Adrenalin that automatic update might replace their driver...

That's for amount of mickey taking damages Microsoft aggressive update policy is forcing on users, automatic update is now disabled and I check on this regularly.

The other issue is Steam and Steam VR playing havoc with DCS, it looks like the last Steam VR Beta update is taking over DCS start command and if I try to close it, it shuts down DCS completely. If I can find a viable alternative to play DCS without using Steam, I will, on top of this, their refresh rate is 20Hz below what my Pico4 can take.

[Oellness]

Am 25.1.2023 um 11:14 schrieb Thinder:

I'm not a great fan of Youtube GPU/CPU tests, especially when you see how those gear are tested, much too often systems are not optimized for the GPU or CPU with mediocre RAM bounding and settings, keep a critical mind about it, it will spare you a lot of frustration time and perhaps money.

Anyway, what mattered to me was to get a system that would let me play DCS at 4K MSAA X2 with decent DCS settings and frame rates, and I managed to do just that with a GPU that cost 27% less than the cheapest 4090, runs flawlessy at temperatures below 73°C in all tests I conducted, all at 4K MSAA2.

My PC upgrade is finally achieved, I got 5 system fans plus a CPU fan, one of the system fans is located below the card, blowing upward, the two Noctua NF-A12x15 are 10mm slimmer than the average 120mm fans and can fit in front of the GPU, the lowest one is linked to the GPU and doesn't kick in under low load, my cabling is cleaner to maximize airflow.

Now the issues are something else, Microsoft automatic update conjob messed up my system entirely, I had to do fresh installs because of a Critical System Failure, couldn't repair, couldn't reset, once a fresh install achieved I was able to install all drivers Automatic Update replaced by Microsoft ones (all AMD drivers including GPU, chipsets and Realteck Audio)

I was warned by AMD (see my signature) through AMD Software Adrenalin that automatic update might replace their driver...

That's for amount of mickey taking damages Microsoft aggressive update policy is forcing on users, automatic update is now disabled and I check on this regularly.

The other issue is Steam and Steam VR playing havoc with DCS, it looks like the last Steam VR Beta update is taking over DCS start command and if I try to close it, it shuts down DCS completely. If I can find a viable alternative to play DCS without using Steam, I will, on top of this, their refresh rate is 20Hz below what my Pico4 can take.

Hi Thinder

Now after some weeks, can you tell me more about the performance of the 5800x3d/7900xtx combo with DCS in VR?

I think about to buy a 7900xtx but i'm not sure about the vr performance issue of the 7900 series. 

Thanks!

[Thinder]

On 2/23/2023 at 11:21 AM, Oellness said:

Hi Thinder

Now after some weeks, can you tell me more about the performance of the 5800x3d/7900xtx combo with DCS in VR?

I think about to buy a 7900xtx but i'm not sure about the vr performance issue of the 7900 series. 

Thanks!

Read my replies in P.M.

[derneuemann]

Am 26.2.2023 um 14:29 schrieb Thinder:

Read my replies in P.M.

I would also be interested in these answers?

Because I also want to buy a 7900XT for DCS VR on a Quest 2.

In the AMD forum you can read that it is quite possible that the Pico and the Quest 2 (only the Quest 2 is mentioned there by name) are actually going very well. Noticeably better than with a 6900XT.

It would be nice if you could confirm that or share your experiences.

[Thinder]

50 minutes ago, derneuemann said:

I would also be interested in these answers?

Because I also want to buy a 7900XT for DCS VR on a Quest 2.

In the AMD forum you can read that it is quite possible that the Pico and the Quest 2 (only the Quest 2 is mentioned there by name) are actually going very well. Noticeably better than with a 6900XT.

It would be nice if you could confirm that or share your experiences.

I couldn't comment on the 7900XT since my GPU is a RX 7900 XTX, there are no issues with my card, it runs fast and cool and if you look at my videos you can see this for yourself.

The issues are with VR support in DCS and AMD drivers at the moment, they both holding the VR performances the card is capable of, AMD with the last 3 drivers release, although they made progresses, and DCS since the last OpenBeta update which caused a significant loss of visual quality with the Pico4, there too progressing but not level with what it was.

Since I was lucky enough to do my testing before both those drivers and DCS update releases I know what the card is really capable of, AMD are visibly working hard trying to sort their drivers out and there have been a slight improvement with DCS too but it is not what it was when I first tested my GPU both in visual quality and which level the card is allowed to perform.

Now if you want to know if I regret my choice, hell no, the Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6 is a hell of a piece of hardware and it proves that all the gossip about AMD GPU exploding were just that, Youtube gurus material, they make their money with this and keep pushing it.

Those cards were mainly mishandled and that's the reason why they had issues, you could as well get the wrong Nvidia 4090 and see it burn because of bad connectors and , bad drivers too, only it will cost you a minimum of £450 more for your trouble, and not one of us AMD users cared to spam the stories because it is not worth it.

My tip, go for the manufacturer offering the best cooling solution, not because those cards are at risk to explode but because they have thermal limits that causes them to throttle down, so pay attention to this aspect as well as your case cooling and in passing it goes for Nvidia cards too.

The overlay is that of the on-screen replay NOT the actual game recording.

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Thinder

[derneuemann]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb Thinder:

I couldn't comment on the 7900XT since my GPU is a RX 7900 XTX, there are no issues with my card, it runs fast and cool and if you look at my videos you can see this for yourself.

The issues are with VR support in DCS and AMD drivers at the moment, they both holding the VR performances the card is capable of, AMD with the last 3 drivers release, although they made progresses, and DCS since the last OpenBeta update which caused a significant loss of visual quality with the Pico4, there too progressing but not level with what it was.

Since I was lucky enough to do my testing before both those drivers and DCS update releases I know what the card is really capable of, AMD are visibly working hard trying to sort their drivers out and there have been a slight improvement with DCS too but it is not what it was when I first tested my GPU both in visual quality and which level the card is allowed to perform.

Now if you want to know if I regret my choice, hell no, the Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6 is a hell of a piece of hardware and it proves that all the gossip about AMD GPU exploding were just that, Youtube gurus material, they make their money with this and keep pushing it.

Those cards were mainly mishandled and that's the reason why they had issues, you could as well get the wrong Nvidia 4090 and see it burn because of bad connectors and , bad drivers too, only it will cost you a minimum of £450 more for your trouble, and not one of us AMD users cared to spam the stories because it is not worth it.

My tip, go for the manufacturer offering the best cooling solution, not because those cards are at risk to explode but because they have thermal limits that causes them to throttle down, so pay attention to this aspect as well as your case cooling and in passing it goes for Nvidia cards too.

The overlay is that of the on-screen replay NOT the actual game recording.

 

 

Thanks for the answer!

The 7900XT is technically the same. Just a little fewer units of account.

The XT just has a little less power. In some tests, the XTX is 18% ahead of the XT.

Your experiences tell me that I can get a 7900XT or XTX. Whether XT or XTX depends on how long I can be patient ;).

Think end of March or April...

I got that right, you made your videos with the Pico 4?

[Thinder]

21 minutes ago, derneuemann said:

I got that right, you made your videos with the Pico 4?

Yes, the visual quality was close to on-screen replays, what I did was to push the DCS settings close to maximum with Pixel density up to 16 for example and at the time I had an issue with my motherboard and the card was running on PCI_E2, meaning not at its max capacity, this have been sorted since.

I flew low level and looked at the terrain near me to see if the play was jerky or not, if it is, I lower the game settings until everything looks smooth, I also do a vertical climb into clouds when possible to see the quality of terrain and clouds.

Now when it comes to raw performances, the card can easily run 10% faster than it does now with proper drivers only, in fact, my 3DMark tests show 9.3% loss of performance since the drivers issues started to creep up, as for my settings you can see the details on the topic I posted for the  first run.

Same thing here, I didn't know yet how to use Afterburner so the overlay is that of the screen recording, I haven't done any in-game FPS recording yet, I'll wait until a driver allows me to recover the full performances of the card, lesson learned, I wont trust driver updates before I read comments on AMD forum about it.

I think the XT will be perfectly capable of running VR in DCS, only not with the same high settings (drivers sorted for both), but still adequate.

Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB GDDR6 first run.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Thinder