Pico 4: how to set it up for DCS?

[RealDCSpilot]

44 minutes ago, Peedee said:

Is this for the stable release version or only for the beta?

Sorry, Open Beta of course...

[Peedee]

1 hour ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Sorry, Open Beta of course...

Is "everybody" playing beta? For me Beta often means "not stable" and unfinnished. So I didn't pick that one when I installed DCS. Is it possible to have both beta and finnished version installed, and if so - how? (so that they don't interfere with each other).

[dburne]

5 minutes ago, Peedee said:

Is "everybody" playing beta? For me Beta often means "not stable" and unfinnished. So I didn't pick that one when I installed DCS. Is it possible to have both beta and finnished version installed, and if so - how? (so that they don't interfere with each other).

Certainly yes you can run both versions at the same time as they each have their own executable. I think you would find most folks in here just run with the Open Beta to get all the latest goodies as soon as possible. Beware though it is still a beta product and some things can get broken at times, though usually not so much. I have only had the Open Beta on my rig now for several years. DCS does carry a large footprint especially with all the maps so there is that to consider as well.

[Peedee]

2 minutes ago, dburne said:

Certainly yes you can run both versions at the same time as they each have their own executable. I think you would find most folks in here just run with the Open Beta to get all the latest goodies as soon as possible. Beware though it is still a beta product and some things can get broken at times, though usually not so much. I have only had the Open Beta on my rig now for several years. DCS does carry a large footprint especially with all the maps so there is that to consider as well.

Thanks,

it is still somewhat confusing still, how to do it. I just bought a new PC and have spent the last 2 days installing, downloading, installing, updating--- both Windows, a bunch of games and everything else. Many Gigabytes all over again I guess...  

8 minutes ago, dburne said:

Certainly yes you can run both versions at the same time as they each have their own executable. I think you would find most folks in here just run with the Open Beta to get all the latest goodies as soon as possible. Beware though it is still a beta product and some things can get broken at times, though usually not so much. I have only had the Open Beta on my rig now for several years. DCS does carry a large footprint especially with all the maps so there is that to consider as well.

Sorry to bother you again,,,, but, does this still work?? - I don't know how old it is. Found it on a webpage:

"How do I move to the Open Beta Branch?

Standalone

1. Open File Explorer and navigate to your DCS World install
2. Hold LShift + Right click on bin folder and press "Open command prompt here" or "Open PowerShell window here"
3. Type or paste

.\DCS_updater.exe update '@openbeta'

"

Seems I could maybe save a few gigs of downloading this way?

[dburne]

5 minutes ago, Peedee said:

Thanks,

it is still somewhat confusing still, how to do it. I just bought a new PC and have spent the last 2 days installing, downloading, installing, updating--- both Windows, a bunch of games and everything else. Many Gigabytes all over again I guess...  

Sorry to bother you again,,,, but, does this still work?? - I don't know how old it is. Found it on a webpage:

"How do I move to the Open Beta Branch?

Standalone

1. Open File Explorer and navigate to your DCS World install
2. Hold LShift + Right click on bin folder and press "Open command prompt here" or "Open PowerShell window here"
3. Type or paste

.\DCS_updater.exe update '@openbeta'

"

Seems I could maybe save a few gigs of downloading this way?

 

I think it should yes can't hurt to try.

[Peedee]

24 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

I think it should yes can't hurt to try.

I tried it, and it downloaded a few files for sure. But I have no idea if it is the beta or not now. I launch it with the same Icon on my desktop as before. I have my Reverb G2 headset connected, and SteamVR still booted up. How do I know if it is the beta I now have installed? Didnt find the versions numbers on DCS download page.

Meaning, no virtdual desktop or pico4 connected now.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Peedee

[Lange_666]

With this utility, you make (and launch) every version you want.

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

8 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

With this utility, you make (and launch) every version you want.

 

As the latest post says, please wait for the updated version that would allow choosing force_OpenXR on or off at switch. I am a big fan, btw.

[Peedee]

14 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

With this utility, you make (and launch) every version you want.

 

Yes, I have used this before. But right now  I only have the beta version anyway. The method to upgrade from Release to Beta that I posted over here, it worked. But of course the updater removed the Release version and left me onlyt with the beta. So... I finally got my Reverb G2 to work wtih just openXR and no SteamVR using the --force_enable_VR --force_OpenXR   like described elsewhere. Won't get into any more of that since this is the Pico part of the forum.

But what to do... I love the center sharpness of my G2, it's been a while since I used it. But I also love the edge to edge clarity which is better on the Pico4. And the compression is still a problem with the Pico, so for me everything in the distance gets more blurry... Solution?? Varjo Aero?? Hehe.--- maybe I'll order one. 

[Lange_666]

8 hours ago, Peedee said:

But of course the updater removed the Release version and left me only with the beta.

Easy-peasy, just make a copy of the beta, put it somewhere and update/revert that copy back to the stable version. Create a shortcut to the DCS.exe in the bin folder and you have 2 versions side by side. Nothing more to it.

[RealDCSpilot]

10 hours ago, Peedee said:

But what to do... I love the center sharpness of my G2, it's been a while since I used it. But I also love the edge to edge clarity which is better on the Pico4. And the compression is still a problem with the Pico, so for me everything in the distance gets more blurry... Solution?? Varjo Aero?? Hehe.--- maybe I'll order one. 

Buying another highres VR HMD will not change your situation. I would consider upgrading your machine instead. A RTX3080, 3090, or 4080/4090 and maybe a new CPU too would open the path for running VD's high quality profiles were compression isn't a problem anymore. Your G2 would also benefit from this. Keep in mind that VR panels always need a higher render resolution than their panel resolution. Both, the G2's and the Pico 4's panels have 2160x2160 pixels per eye and you need to run the game at least at 3120x3120 per eye to meet their target image quality.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I ripped the resolution chart for Pico4, et al, when used with VD, fyi, please.

Edited February 1, 2023 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[RealDCSpilot]

Maybe an important info... Just tested OpenXR toolkit with VD streaming on Pico4. While it can help with gaining some more FPS on paper, it also degrades the image quality. This makes sense, because fixed foveated rendering changes how pixels are drawn for each frame drastically and means more workload for encoding and decoding. It shows a lot of compression artifacts, something i hadn't seen before by just using VD at GodLike with SSW enabled.

Edited February 1, 2023 by RealDCSpilot

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

It is always about visual quality vs framerate. Give and take. I am running VD at Ultra + OXTK without any MSAA and ASW, it gives me 50 - 72 fps (as reported by fpsVR) most of the time.

[Peedee]

6 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Buying another highres VR HMD will not change your situation. I would consider upgrading your machine instead. A RTX3080, 3090, or 4080/4090 and maybe a new CPU too would open the path for running VD's high quality profiles were compression isn't a problem anymore. Your G2 would also benefit from this. Keep in mind that VR panels always need a higher render resolution than their panel resolution. Both, the G2's and the Pico 4's panels have 2160x2160 pixels per eye and you need to run the game at least at 3120x3120 per eye to meet their target image quality.

Ups - Sorry - I haven´t updated my signature for a while... Hehe.

My system has had two upgrades since I made that signature with the RTX 2080 and so on.  Used a RTX 3090 for some time. But this week I bought a complete new system - which is pretty neat...  My setup now is this:

Phanteks Eclipse G500A Mid Tower case
Corsair AX1600i, 1600W PSU 
ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI motherboard
Intel Core i9-13900K CPU
Asus ROG Strix LC II 360 ARGB CPU Water Cooler
Kingston FURY Beast DDR5 6000MHz 32GB RAM (planning on adding another 32gb there..)
Kingston FURY Renegade PCIe M.2 NVME SSD 7300/7000 MB/s -2TB   +  Kingston M.2 NV2 PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD  3,500/2,800MB/s  -2TB
ASUS ROG Strix GeForce RTX 4090 OC Edition 

So... the only way to go now is probably upgrading the headset. Or lower my expectations for what is being possible for the time being. But...

If I had had the system I wrote in my signature some time ago, then your advice would have been perfect, and I agree with you. My fortunately, my system is way better these days  We´ll see what happes  

[RealDCSpilot]

@Peedee Alright, now we are talking. Well, we have almost the same configuration, i can run DCS at 3840x3840 per eye and this should also be possible for you. Try Pico 4 with VD at godlike and SSW always on, force DCS to OpenXR and in SteamVR set SS resolution manually (increase from the godlike preset). Let's see what happens
Especially with the new 13XXX CPU series i also recommend Win11 for better CPU handling. Runs like a charm on my end.

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by RealDCSpilot

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

BTW, OXTK can be set to do nothing other than showing the clock and FPS, without any noticable degrade in visual quality. It also eliminates the stuttering DCS World prompt by SteamVR.

Edited February 1, 2023 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Peedee]

1 hour ago, RealDCSpilot said:

@Peedee Alright, now we are talking. Well, we have almost the same configuration, i can run DCS at 3840x3840 per eye and this should also be possible for you. Try Pico 4 with VD at godlike and SSW always on, force DCS to OpenXR and in SteamVR set SS resolution manually (increase from the godlike preset). Let's see what happens
Especially with the new 13XXX CPU series i also recommend Win11 for better CPU handling. Runs like a charm on my end.

 

 

Cool, thanks. I will try that! I have tried Godlike, but not tried to increase it beyond that in StreamVR. 
Yup- I’m using Win11 :)

[Peedee]

5 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Maybe an important info... Just tested OpenXR toolkit with VD streaming on Pico4. While it can help with gaining some more FPS on paper, it also degrades the image quality. This makes sense, because fixed foveated rendering changes how pixels are drawn for each frame drastically and means more workload for encoding and decoding. It shows a lot of compression artifacts, something i hadn't seen before by just using VD at GodLike with SSW enabled.

 

Fixed Foveated rendering makes very sense with my Reverb G2 because it’s only the very center that is sharp anyway so you move your head around a lot and the sharp center follows. But the edge to edge clarity we have with the Pico 4 will suffer since the foveated rendering is center fixed and we would need to move the head around more to see clearly. Meaning if I use that I might as well use the Reverb G2. 

That’s my initial thought about it since it is fixed. If that rendering had had eye tracking- then yes, it would have been nice for Pico4. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Peedee

[RealDCSpilot]

Oh, i didn't mean the expected pixelation of foveated rendering. In the center, which is on full super sampling resolution, the image quality also suffers too due to video stream compression. I guess this is what certain people meant while testing the Pico4 and found it's compression quality not acceptable. If they were using OpenXR toolkit... no wonder. Without any tinkering and plain VD it looks fantastic.

[Peedee]

20 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

@Peedee Alright, now we are talking. Well, we have almost the same configuration, i can run DCS at 3840x3840 per eye and this should also be possible for you. Try Pico 4 with VD at godlike and SSW always on, force DCS to OpenXR and in SteamVR set SS resolution manually (increase from the godlike preset). Let's see what happens
Especially with the new 13XXX CPU series i also recommend Win11 for better CPU handling. Runs like a charm on my end.

 

 

Well now I have tried with SteamVR set to 3840x3840 for DCS and Pico 4... that was an improvement over "plain" Godlike So thanks for that tip  I do have some stutters though, not much. I have only tried one training mission (A-10cII ) in the "original" map with this setting. The stutters are the sort where the audio drop out, kinda stutters too. Almost like it's loading stuff, but it doesn't happen with my Reverb G2. So it could be a connection problem? Checking with the Desktop app for VD I have good connection, so.. don't know. 

What others settings do you have in the VD desktop app (besides ASW always on), and which codec do you use there? I know I am asking a lot, but... what settings work for you in DCS (I understand we have similar systems) ?

[RealDCSpilot]

@PeedeeI use HEVC, SSW always on, 150 Mbps and well - GodLike. Here are the sections of my options.lua:

["VR"] = {
        ["bloom"] = true,
        ["box_mouse_cursor"] = true,
        ["custom_IPD"] = "60",
        ["custom_IPD_enable"] = false,
        ["enable"] = true,
        ["enableHMDMask"] = true,
        ["hand_controllers"] = false,
        ["hand_controllers_debug_draw"] = false,
        ["hand_controllers_joint_throttle"] = false,
        ["hand_controllers_use_stick"] = true,
        ["hand_controllers_use_throttle"] = true,
        ["interaction_with_grip_only"] = false,
        ["mirror_crop"] = false,
        ["mirror_source"] = 1,
        ["mirror_use_DCS_resolution"] = true,
        ["msaaMaskSize"] = 0.33,
        ["pixel_density"] = 1,
        ["pointer_use_type"] = 0,
        ["prefer_built_in_audio"] = true,
        ["use_mouse"] = false,

["graphics"] = {
        ["DOF"] = 0,
        ["LensEffects"] = 3,
        ["MSAA"] = 0,
        ["SSAA"] = 0,
        ["SSAO"] = 0,
        ["SSLR"] = 0,
        ["ScreenshotExt"] = "jpg",
        ["anisotropy"] = 4,
        ["aspect"] = 1,
        ["box_mouse_cursor"] = true,
        ["chimneySmokeDensity"] = 10,
        ["civTraffic"] = "",
        ["clouds"] = 3,
        ["clutterMaxDistance"] = 690,
        ["cockpitGI"] = 1,
        ["defaultFOV"] = 69,
        ["effects"] = 3,
        ["flatTerrainShadows"] = 0,
        ["forestDetailsFactor"] = 1,
        ["forestDistanceFactor"] = 1,
        ["fullScreen"] = false,
        ["heatBlr"] = 1,
        ["height"] = 1200,
        ["lights"] = 2,
        ["messagesFontScale"] = 1,
        ["motionBlur"] = 0,
        ["multiMonitorSetup"] = "1camera",
        ["outputGamma"] = 2.2,
        ["preloadRadius"] = 150000,
        ["rainDroplets"] = true,
        ["scaleGui"] = 1,
        ["sceneryDetailsFactor"] = 1,
        ["secondaryShadows"] = 1,
        ["shadowTree"] = false,
        ["shadows"] = 4,
        ["sync"] = false,
        ["terrainTextures"] = "max",
        ["textures"] = 2,
        ["useDeferredShading"] = 1,
        ["visibRange"] = "Ultra",
        ["water"] = 2,
        ["width"] = 1200,

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by RealDCSpilot

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

The thing about taking in-hmd image is the text is really hard to read. From the look of it, sweet. BTW, mirror turned off?

Edited February 2, 2023 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Oellness]

I must do womething wrong....

- I use the command line option --force_enable_VR --force_OpenXR  

- i use VD

How can i use OXTK? 

I installed OpenXR Toolkit Companion app but i can't make any settings.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Here:

https://mbucchia.github.io/OpenXR-Toolkit/

Download and install the toolkit, make sure DCS World is checked in the companion app, it should automatically. Close the companion app (no need to left it running). Launch DCS World and you can customise the setting right inside your game. If I were not mistaken, once you are done with the settings, it is saved automatically and use across different games.

Also, please note that it almost does nothing (affecting your fps results) if you do not change any setting in it. I use it for

1. Eliminate the dreaded "DCS World waiting..." prompt by SteamVR (I assume)'
2. A clock to tell me I should have been sleeping; and
3. The current framerate, better than VD's performance overlay.

Edited February 3, 2023 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants