Exemption of AMPCD maps from Integrity Check

[MikeMikeJuliet]

Hello!

I have a request considering the maps in the module's installation folder that are used on the HSI-page in the AMPCD that these could be exempted from IC. The reasoning is twofold: first off, all the maps can be customized in the actual aircraft by Mission Support, and so we should be able to do that too. I am not arguing for a tool to make the maps, just that we would be able to alter the files as we need to. Secondly: the current map with the current gain and the green symbology is really difficult to read at a glance. Even at lowest gain the symbols tend to not be bright enough and the map dark enough to read the display as easily as we should be able to.

The benefit for adding an exception in the IC is that we could simply go throught the maps and adjust their brightness to a darker tone (I've tried this and it works really well), or the players could even modify the maps to the specific needs of a specific mission, drawing custom areas and borders etc in the maps, instead having to rely on a specific map that in many cases doesn't suit your needs.

I do not see how having the maps under IC provides any protection against malicious player behaviour. IRL you can have what ever kind of map under your HSI that you need. This would greatly enhance the usability of the moving map in the F/A-18

 

Thank you for considering!

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet

Edited January 13, 2023 by MikeMikeJuliet

[Yurgon]

Very recently a brilliant mod was released that replaces the Caucasus-charts for all digital moving-map equipped aircraft:

As far as I can tell, that one also breaks IC.

I tried installing it into Saved Games instead of the base DCS installation directory, but that simply didn't do anything, I still had the old maps in DCS.

Instead of adding an IC-exemption for the installation directory, I think it would be much better and easier to maintain if these charts/files could override the stock DCS files when they're placed in Saved Games.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Yurgon
Clarification

[MikeMikeJuliet]

Well, that would effectively do the same thing. I don't mind which way it is done, as long as it would be possible to customize the maps. Install-folder or savedgames, all the same for me as long as the functionality is there.

[MikeMikeJuliet]

I'm raising the topic back from it's slumber.

I realise this is the Hornet's whislist, but the feature ought to work the same for all modules.

I hope this get's a bit more attention. I'm not sure if people realise just how powerful having custom maps onboard the aircraft really is. The current situation is very limiting - so much so that I for one turn the map off completely (mostly due to it's brightness making the HSI near unreadable, but also because the map rarely serves the flight).

 

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet

[CastorFIN]

To add to this in VR the map is basically unusable due to the symbology blending into the map so easily.
This means that by standard I ALWAYS disable the map from HSI on AMPCD or just use the HSI on one of the other screens.

[Eraseri]

Old but not forgotten, still required

[Juuba]

I also approve of this message.

To add, in most of the new "terrains" the Hornet's map blank out after 10 miles scale or something.

Edited 15 hours ago by Juuba
typo

[Phantom711]

As far as I know, the poor readability is actually „correct as is“….but I still agree, that the maps should be more available to all theaters and at least some reasonable zoom levels.

as for „custom maps“: I agree, that this would be nice as well, but really it would still be a workaround. What we really need in that regard is the ability to make drawings from the ME visible in the HSI/SA page.

[MikeMikeJuliet]

10 hours ago, Phantom711 said:

As far as I know, the poor readability is actually „correct as is“….but I still agree, that the maps should be more available to all theaters and at least some reasonable zoom levels.

as for „custom maps“: I agree, that this would be nice as well, but really it would still be a workaround. What we really need in that regard is the ability to make drawings from the ME visible in the HSI/SA page.

The poor readability comes in part from the fact that the map beneath the green symbology is made with colors that do not make the symbology pop. That is in fact not "correct as is" but a function of what kind of map is loaded onto the aircraft. There is no reason the map under the symbology would have to be a color that hides the symbology given that the AMPCD is a full color screen.

 

On your second point yes, I would love to have the ability to "bake" drawings from the ME that would then show on the map. But there is an issue there: the current maps (example: Caucasus) already has stuff baked into the map itself that you cannot remove without modifying the map beneath. In the end both would need to be implemented. But if only one was, then the ability to alter the maps would allow for the same functionality that your suggestion would, with the added benefit of customising everything else regarding the moving maps as well. It would be more cumbersome for sure.

 

Besides ED removing IC from the maps would be a really easy step for them versus building a system where they alter the maps on runtime based on ME drawings.

 

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet

[Phantom711]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb MikeMikeJuliet:

On your second point yes, I would love to have the ability to "bake" drawings from the ME that would then show on the map. But there is an issue there: the current maps (example: Caucasus) already has stuff baked into the map itself that you cannot remove without modifying the map beneath

Well, that‘s just how it is on an aeronautical chart. Assuming you are talking about CTRs, Restricted Areas and such. I think it‘s still realistic, that these charts would be used. If you happen to be at war with that particular country, then you simply ignore their „Restricted Areas“ of course. Drawings from the DTC would still have a different appeal, so it‘s unlikely to get mixed up.

Where are these maps located in the file structure actually?

[MikeMikeJuliet]

9 minutes ago, Phantom711 said:

Well, that‘s just how it is on an aeronautical chart. Assuming you are talking about CTRs, Restricted Areas and such. I think it‘s still realistic, that these charts would be used. If you happen to be at war with that particular country, then you simply ignore their „Restricted Areas“ of course. Drawings from the DTC would still have a different appeal, so it‘s unlikely to get mixed up.

Where are these maps located in the file structure actually?

The maps are customised to the needs of the flying unit. There are several different styles of aeronautical charts, and many militaries actually have completely custom charts. It's not a case of the military putting the civilian chart in there - mission support personnell can build a map from the ground up basically if need be. Although the Finnish Airforce uses the newer displays, there are a few videos using a black moving map with relevant training area borders in purple/magenta. Those are definitely not civilian aeronautical charts.

It would be critical to have a map on a mission IRL where you would have to constantly discern which areas are "real" and which areas are not during the mission just because nobody bothered to install relevant maps. That would increase pilot workload needlessly.

The reason most videos on the internet show aeronautical charts, is because most videos are filmed in areas where said airspace is still valid. And I'm not talking about weither or not a single area is active currently, rather weither the whole airspace structure is valid or not. Sure, one can fly with any aeronautical chart, but purpose built ones would for sure be preferred. The aircraft itself does not care what color and what symbology is baked onto the map as long as it is not to do with hardware limitations (like display color palette, which is not the case with the DCS F/A-18C AMPCD). It does not care if the map is "official" or custom made. But the pilot does. Another way to look at this is: if an airspace was completely reshaped for wartime operations, the civilian aeronautical charts wouldn't be valid, because at that time the airspace does not exist anymore. Similar to when a country rebuilds it's airspace structure - you can't go flying with the old maps.

 

The files are, actually now that I think about it, under the map installation folder, under rastermaps. So technically I should have posted this on the general wishlist as it concerns all the modules that use the maps. It's not under savedgames... if it were then modding them would not break IC.

 

Sorry, the reply wound up a bit long. Point is this wish is not made on a whim. Participation to the discussion if very much appreciated. Allows me to make the point clearer.

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet