Unplayable because of Wingman

[DaWu]

I wish a refund ED thx. Everytime I enter the runway my wingman just crashes into me and the mission is over. I know its probably not BD fault but EDs horror AI making as it unplayable and even takeoff in any of the missions so far (miz 3 currently after skipping the first two).

I will also never buy any campaign again that includes AI. I stay at MP in the future exclusively

[baltic_dragon]

It happened sometimes in M1 during testing but never was consistent. I will report it to ED, though not everyone has this particular problem. On the other hand this is a basic AI just told to taxi behind the player, there should be no reason for it to ram him... In any case, sorry to hear that you won't be getting campaigns anymore, and just imagine how frustrating this can be to us as 3rd party campaign devs...

[DaWu]

I know its as frustrating for you as for us. You guys should make pressure to ED as it hurts sales. I managed to to finish the campaign by now by taking off far ahead of the wingman. Learned some new tricks definitely.

[baltic_dragon]

I'll try to reproduce this in track in vanilla mission in NTTR and report, I know this is frustrating..

[cheefbird]

Can confirm this is continually happening to me. Just purchased last night.  After reproducing it twice, I neglected to save the track file due to frustration, but I do have a tacview export. if that in any way helps: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qLxy4-ybc8NXWdcTQxjwF0cQSe1HaWIW/view?usp=sharing

Things I've noticed ...

I cross the runway and lineup, but continue rolling to ensure I'm lined up.  Before I even press spacebar to let him know I'm lined up and ready, he has started his takeoff roll and just cheeses it straight down the runway, going all the way into the air.  Second time, I had pressed spacebar while still rolling a little bit and looking backwards to see what he'd do.  Sure enough, he started his takeoff roll, crashed into me, and continued to takeoff like nothing had happened.

[baltic_dragon]

I don't think it happens in all the missions, I'll see if I can reproduce and fix somehow. Will get back to you. @cheefbirdcan you specify in which mission / missions it happens?

[cheefbird]

Thanks BD! Only in mission 1 - I haven't moved past it yet so I can try others in the coming day and get back to you.  WIll grab the track file + tacview this time

Very much appreciate your prompt reply! much for all you do!

[Reflected]

On 2/4/2023 at 7:24 AM, DaWu said:

I know its as frustrating for you as for us. You guys should make pressure to ED as it hurts sales. I managed to to finish the campaign by now by taking off far ahead of the wingman. Learned some new tricks definitely.

Why should it be on the shoulders of a handful campaign makers to make ED fix core AI bugs? To use our very limited free time to hunt down core bugs instead of building and improving missions?  I think it's much more efficient if the community pressures them too. And believe me, we DO pressure them.

The AI has been randomly ramming the player for years, but it only happens rarely. It's not module dependent either. I'm not sure but I have a hunch that it's more likely to happen if the player deviates from the taxiway's centerline too much.

But stopping buying campaigns altogether? It's like 'hey I'm never buying another pizza at Pepe's again, because the road leading there is full of potholes. Pepe's should pressure City Hall to have it fixed because it hurts their sales'.  Pepe can either make pizzas or organize roadworks. Not both at the same time. The reason the AI doesn't ram you outside of the campaigns is because you probably don't fly cold starts with AI wingmen outside of the campaign that often.

But yeah, bottom line is, it's frustrating, and the more of us pressure ED to fix it, the better.

[cheefbird]

I think I figure more out ... I loaded up mission 1 once more yesterday in an attempt to simply repro and save the track, but I managed to takeoff without issue.  In re0-watching, I did something a little differently.

This time, I prevented BIFF from turning to the centerline and kept him from even being able to start rolling.  This time, he sat back and the mission dialogue continued as expected and I had no issues.

When I enter the runway and roll forward, giving him room to enter himself -- THAT's when he just goes for takeoff without stopping. The trick was to keep him from lining up himself.

 

I'll try once more to repro again to get him to ram me just to be sure, but this might help you repro!

edit: just to be clear, I don't want to refund or stop buying campaigns. I agree we need more people pushing ED to remember that the game itself needs to be better, not just the modules.

Edited May 15, 2023 by cheefbird
clarification on stance

[baltic_dragon]

@cheefbird thank you for this report. I will add a note to the briefing to make sure players do the same, this is a very useful piece of advice - appreciate it! @Reflected very well said, LOL!

[MAXsenna]

I think I figure more out ... I loaded up mission 1 once more yesterday in an attempt to simply repro and save the track, but I managed to takeoff without issue.  In re0-watching, I did something a little differently.
This time, I prevented BIFF from turning to the centerline and kept him from even being able to start rolling.  This time, he sat back and the mission dialogue continued as expected and I had no issues.
When I enter the runway and roll forward, giving him room to enter himself -- THAT's when he just goes for takeoff without stopping. The trick was to keep him from lining up himself.
 
I'll try once more to repro again to get him to ram me just to be sure, but this might help you repro!
edit: just to be clear, I don't want to refund or stop buying campaigns. I agree we need more people pushing ED to remember that the game itself needs to be better, not just the modules.

If I understand you correctly, this is in line with @Reflected 's theory, that straying away from the centerline messes up for the AI.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Nialfb]

Thanks Cheefbird, I thought it was me just being a dumb ass! I followed the entire startup and was pretty cheesed off when Biff poleaxed me on the runway! I'll run the mission again when I get another hour to spare

[Rogue.]

Same here, lined up on the centreline, stopped and got rear ended by my wingman.

[baltic_dragon]

We're reported it long time ago and it is completely out of our hands, one of those DCS issues that happen especially often in Nellis...