Foveated Rendering Support for DCS

[jcenzano]

On 7/21/2023 at 9:59 PM, mbucchia said:

very weird indeed. As you can see in the log file you are rendering 63% less pixels... so unclear why the game would be working harder. I've been adding all sorts of performance instrumentation in a new version (not published yet), once I release that you'll have to try again. I don't think anybody else has reported such issue so far, the only known performance issue is with OBSMirror and that tanks the CPU frame times, not GPU

mbuccchia, thank you so much for your work. It is much appreciated!!!!

I am experimenting the same issues, with the Quad view, latest version.

I get extremely erratic fps and DCS runs smoother without it. Looking forwars for the next version to see if it solves this problem.

here is my log

 

edit I have OBS installed, but it is not working

Quad-Views-Foveated.log

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by jcenzano

[mbucchia]

26 minutes ago, jcenzano said:

mbuccchia, thank you so much for your work. It is much appreciated!!!!

I am experimenting the same issues, with the Quad view, latest version.

I get extremely erratic fps and DCS runs smoother without it. Looking forwars for the next version to see if it solves this problem.

here is my log

 

edit I have OBS installed, but it is not working

Quad-Views-Foveated.log 3.07 kB · 3 downloads

 

 

You need to check if you are CPU bound. If you're CPU bound or close to CPU bound, quad views DFR isn't going to help and will actually do the opposite.

[nikoel]

3 hours ago, jcenzano said:

mbuccchia, thank you so much for your work. It is much appreciated!!!!

I am experimenting the same issues, with the Quad view, latest version.

I get extremely erratic fps and DCS runs smoother without it. Looking forwars for the next version to see if it solves this problem.

here is my log

 

edit I have OBS installed, but it is not working

Quad-Views-Foveated.log 3.07 kB · 5 downloads

 

 

I have the same issue

my processor is 5800X3D with a 4090 and 64GB Ram

i believe there is someone else with the exact issue with the same machine

what specs do you run?

[skywalker22]

On 8/1/2023 at 12:44 AM, mbucchia said:

You need to check if you are CPU bound. If you're CPU bound or close to CPU bound, quad views DFR isn't going to help and will actually do the opposite.

How do I know if I'm CPU bound? I have disabled Hyperthreading for my 10700K in BIOS, and the game runs way smoother since then (this only applies for the current verison of DCS, since there is/are bugs regarding Multithreading). But to some how make sure if I am cpu or gpu bound, I can only help my self with an Rivatuner app (part of MSI Afterburner) and set the cpu and gpu usage to show them on screen. But even then, what I can see is that, if I am cpu bound, one of the cores (or threats, not sure what does Rivatuner it really show) is always at 100% of load. Is there any better way to find out to what am I bound to?

[edmuss]

Nominally.....

If the FPS is below refresh rate (say 90) and the GPU is running at 100% then you're GPU bound.
If the FPS is below refresh rate (say 90) and the GPU is not running at 100% then you're CPU bound.

If you have GPU overhead (you're beating refresh rate) then your GPU will be idling so may show <100% load, this is your ideal situation but realistically isn't going to happen much without a 4090.

Using the DCS FPS graph, the red CPU bound on main thread generally indicates CPU bound, the yellow CPU bound on render thread generally indicates GPU bound.

Edited August 2, 2023 by edmuss

[skywalker22]

4 minutes ago, edmuss said:

Nominally.....

If the FPS is below refresh rate (say 90) and the GPU is running at 100% then you're GPU bound.
If the FPS is below refresh rate (say 90) and the GPU is not running at 100% then you're CPU bound.

If you have GPU overhead (you're beating refresh rate) then your GPU will be idling so may show <100% load, this is your ideal situation but realistically isn't going to happen much without a 4090.

Using the DCS FPS graph, the red CPU bound on main thread generally indicates CPU bound, the yellow CPU bound on render thread generally indicates GPU bound.

 

Indeed my GPU is at max 40%  which apparently means I am CPU bound. 

thx for simple explanation.

[edmuss]

What FPS are you achieving, with what headset, refresh rate and GPU?
Note that if you're using reprojection that will also drop the GPU usage because it's only got to achieve half of the refresh rate.

Edited August 2, 2023 by edmuss

[recoilfx]

Yeah, it's actually better to use frame time graphs. I assume you are using the Quest Pro, which means you can enable the performance HUD view with the Oculus Debug Tool. Make sure you select the Application Render Timing option for the performance HUD and look for the CPU and GPU frame timing. If your GPU timing is higher than CPU, then you are GPU bound and vice versa.

Another note to keep track of is the general timing - if you are running at 72hz, you don't want your CPU or GPU timing to be more than 13.89ms (1000ms/72hz), and if you are running at 90hz, you don't want them more than 11.11ms. If your timings are more than that, the Oculus runtime will half your frame rate to run in reprojection mode(hence GPU usage drop).

 

1 hour ago, skywalker22 said:

Indeed my GPU is at max 40%  which apparently means I am CPU bound. 

thx for simple explanation.

 

1 hour ago, edmuss said:

What FPS are you achieving, with what headset, refresh rate and GPU?
Note that if you're using reprojection that will also drop the GPU usage because it's only got to achieve half of the refresh rate.

 

 

[skywalker22]

4 hours ago, edmuss said:

What FPS are you achieving, with what headset, refresh rate and GPU?
Note that if you're using reprojection that will also drop the GPU usage because it's only got to achieve half of the refresh rate.

 

Quest Pro, 90Hz, 4090. No reprojection.

I have Quest Pro to 90Hz, and when flying low (with lots of details) it draws at half of that (so at 45Hz).

[skywalker22]

I did as you said, turned on Application Render Timing widget. 

App motion-to-photon latency= 70-80ms!!!! WTF, how come is this possible?

This is how I have set in OTT:

[slughead]

2 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

I did as you said, turned on Application Render Timing widget. 

App motion-to-photon latency= 70-80ms!!!! WTF, how come is this possible?

Motion to photon latency refers to inputs you make being seen on the screen. Such as moving your head. So this starts in the headset, sent through the link, to the app, the app makes a change and is then sent all the way back to the headset. More about latency and not to do with the frame rendering ability of the app/pc.

[edmuss]

15 hours ago, skywalker22 said:

Quest Pro, 90Hz, 4090. No reprojection.

I have Quest Pro to 90Hz, and when flying low (with lots of details) it draws at half of that (so at 45Hz).

You must have reprojection (ASW for the quest) on somewhere, if it's stepped from 90 to 45 then it's reprojecting.  If you were getting a steady <90>50 fps then that would be showing that reprojection is off.
I would have anticipated you being able to achieve 90fps all the time with the quest pro and a 4090 unless it is as you say, the CPU pulling it back.

[skywalker22]

27 minutes ago, edmuss said:

You must have reprojection (ASW for the quest) on somewhere, if it's stepped from 90 to 45 then it's reprojecting.  If you were getting a steady <90>50 fps then that would be showing that reprojection is off.
I would have anticipated you being able to achieve 90fps all the time with the quest pro and a 4090 unless it is as you say, the CPU pulling it back.

The CPU is a hude bottleneck for sure. Specially when it comes to some missions, when CPU has way more work to do all the calcuations. GPU is almost idling at all times.

About motion reprojection, I have turned it off in OpenXR Toolkit, so I don't know where else it could be turned on.

[mbucchia]

32 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

The CPU is a hude bottleneck for sure. Specially when it comes to some missions, when CPU has way more work to do all the calcuations. GPU is almost idling at all times.

About motion reprojection, I have turned it off in OpenXR Toolkit, so I don't know where else it could be turned on.

There is no motion reprojection setting for Quest in OpenXR Toolkit. So you're somehow mistaken.

[nikoel]

You can use Oculus Debug Tool to disable all forms of ASW. Without that setting it will default to on

It has nothing to do with OpenXR, DFR or DCS

[skywalker22]

3 hours ago, mbucchia said:

There is no motion reprojection setting for Quest in OpenXR Toolkit. So you're somehow mistaken.

Oh, I must have it in memory from before (few months ago) when I had other headset, and MR was there. At least I know I didn't set it to on now, since its not there

So where else is it possible to enable/disable MR now? As @nikoel said, in OTT (ODT)? I use OTT.

@nikoel as you can 2 posts above, I ASW is off. So this means motion reprojection is turned on?

Edited August 3, 2023 by skywalker22

[nikoel]

28 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

Oh, I must have it in memory from before (few months ago) when I had other headset, and MR was there. At least I know I didn't set it to on now, since its not there

So where else is it possible to enable/disable MR now? As @nikoel said, in OTT (ODT)? I use OTT.

@nikoel as you can 2 posts above, I ASW is off. So this means motion reprojection is turned on?

 

Just humour me. Close Oculus Tray Tool. Open the Oculus Debug Tool (The official meta one) select ASW - OFF and from the dropdown menu select restart Oculus Service

Try that out in a dogfight of whatever floats your boat. When you're done with that. With DCS still running go back to the Debug Tool and select 45hz ASW - Now you should have ASW locked at 45hz no matter what. Open a dogfight [or whatever floats your boat] to confirm. There is an other menu item that selects 45hz no ASW, to just lock you to half refresh-rate. Try that too, you should see ghosting but no performance dipping

NOTE: "45hz" is not quite right. It should say '1/2 Refresh-rate' as this setting works by locking you to 40 in 80hz, and 32 in 74hz etc...

I'm sure you know this already, but just in case - OTT has global performance settings, however it has per-app settings that over-ride the global settings. I have seen before with a friend of mine. He was changing the global settings within OTT with no result because he had custom DSC settings which overrode those

Edited August 3, 2023 by nikoel

[skywalker22]

I am glad that I can still make some laugh 

Seriously, this is becoming more and more confusing, someone say use OTT, other say use ODT, so how come can someone, who's not so familiar with all the stuff, know what to use?! As far as I know, majority of people here use OTT. And as far as I have tried, ODT does change some values by its self back to default values after restart, so why using it if changes are not saved? And exactly from that reason I went from ODT to OTT. 

5 hours ago, nikoel said:

I'm sure you know this already, but just in case - OTT has global performance settings, however it has per-app settings that over-ride the global settings. I have seen before with a friend of mine. He was changing the global settings within OTT with no result because he had custom DSC settings which overrode those

No, I didn't know that. Is here someone to confirm that? Maybe Mr. @mbucchia ?

At the end of the day, both app do exactly the same things, I don't know where did you hear/read that OTT and ODT have different levels of accessing the game (such as DCS), so one has global, some can overwrite, the other can't (if this is what you are trying to say).

Edited August 3, 2023 by skywalker22

[nikoel]

2 hours ago, skywalker22 said:

I am glad that I can still make some laugh 

Seriously, this is becoming more and more confusing, someone say use OTT, other say use ODT, so how come can someone, who's not so familiar with all the stuff, know what to use?! As far as I know, majority of people here use OTT. And as far as I have tried, ODT does change some values by its self back to default values after restart, so why using it if changes are not saved? And exactly from that reason I went from ODT to OTT. 

No, I didn't know that. Is here someone to confirm that? Maybe Mr. @mbucchia ?

At the end of the day, both app do exactly the same things, I don't know where did you hear/read that OTT and ODT have different levels of accessing the game (such as DCS), so one has global, some can overwrite, the other can't (if this is what you are trying to say).

 

No that’s not what I meant [or wrote]. The global and per app settings was in regards to OTT. But anyway, good luck 

Edited August 3, 2023 by nikoel

[Hadeda]

DFR is giving me amazing results. The only issue I have is that I see some screen tearing towards the top of the screen. Basically some black distortion lines, bit like a glitch in the fabric of the dcs matrix;-). DFR settings all to default. Problem goes away if I uninstall dfr. Any ideas? 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Hadeda

[slughead]

2 hours ago, Hadeda said:

DFR is giving me amazing results. The only issue I have is that I see some screen tearing towards the top of the screen. Basically some black distortion lines, bit like a glitch in the fabric of the dcs matrix;-). DFR settings all to default. Problem goes away if I uninstall dfr. Any ideas? 

 

Are you sure that this is due to DFR and not the headset? If you've changed any Oculus settings in the OTT or ODT I would reset them back to default and retest.

[Hadeda]

21 hours ago, slughead said:

Are you sure that this is due to DFR and not the headset? If you've changed any Oculus settings in the OTT or ODT I would reset them back to default and retest.

Thanks. Looks like my Encode Resolution was set too high in OTT. Putting it back to default seems to have addressed the issue. 

[yann06]

Bonjour à tous,

J'ai un gros problème depuis la dernière mise à jour DCS.

J'utilise le casque VARJO AERO et j'applique les conditions ci-dessous :

 

"NOUVEAU - Commentaire : DCS multithread via Varjo OpenXR

1. DCS MT ne produit OpenXR qu'à l'heure actuelle (sur les casques Varjo, il utilise Varjo OpenXR en contournant Steam), il ne nécessite donc pas de raccourci ou de lignes de commande pour s'exécuter, mais vous devez vous assurer d'exécuter l'application à partir du bon dossier qui est \ bin -mt\ (l'ancienne application DCS réside toujours dans le dossier \bin\ qui est monothread).  Cela deviendra probablement le mode préféré de la plupart des utilisateurs, car il offre les meilleures performances et les meilleurs visuels par rapport aux autres modes lorsqu'il est associé à Dynamic Foveation, même au début de la sortie.

2. Cette version prend en charge la fovéation dynamique, mais nécessite le mod Varjo Foveated de mbuchia pour fonctionner.  (  Accueil · mbucchia/Varjo-Foveated Wiki · GitHub  ).  Les fichiers sont installés dans le dossier %ProgramFiles%\OpenXR-Varjo-Foveated\, au cas où vous auriez besoin de les supprimer autorisés.  Vous pouvez toujours forcer le mode d'affichage stéréo via le wrapper d'extensions d'instance de mbucchia (  GitHub - mbucchia/OpenXR-InstanceExtensionsWrapper : un wrapper d'exécution OpenXR pour masquer les extensions d'instance sélectionnées.  ). Utilisez uniquement l'un ou l'autre de ces mods car ils ne sont pas compatibles les uns avec les autres, le dernier désactive la vue quadruple tandis que le premier favorise la vue quadruple avec suivi oculaire.

3. Si le mod Varjo Foveated est utilisé, la boîte à outils OpenXR doit être désactivée (via l'application compagnon) ou désinstallée.  Alternativement, vous pouvez également désactiver sélectivement DCS à partir de la liste des jeux pris en charge dans l'application compagnon OXRTK.

4. Dans l'application Varjo Base, vous devez activer Varjo OpenXR.  (L'environnement d'exécution Steam OpenXR fonctionnera également mais ne prend pas en charge le DFR, d'où des performances médiocres).  Varjo OpenVR doit également être activé pour une compatibilité générale avec les applications SteamVR qui utilisent généralement l'API OpenVR.

5. Exécutez DCS.exe directement à partir de \bin-mt\ ou créez un nouveau raccourci pour celui-ci.

6. Vous remarquerez également le processus d'arrière-plan Varjo Gaze dans le gestionnaire de tâches, qui indique que DFR est actif."

 

Tout fonctionne très bien et très fluide sur la version DCS 2.8.6.41363 Bêta ouverte  -  22.06.2023  mais  depuis la mise à jour  DCS 2.8.7.42718 Bêta ouverte  -  28.07.2023   J'ai d'énormes pertes de FPS et des gros lags. J'ai deux disques durs sur lesquels DCS OPENBETA sont installés avec les mêmes paramètres, le même pilote Nvidia, la même version VarjoBase sauf la version DCS.

Ancienne version je suis stable avec 75 à 90 fps alors qu'avec la dernière version je chute à 18 - 25fps

J'ai plusieurs fois essayé de tout désinstaller puis de réinstaller mais impossible de comprendre mon problème.

Du coup, je ne peux plus jouer en multi-joueurs

pouvez-vous à m'aider s'il vous plait!!!!!!

Edited August 9, 2023 by yann06

[autracer]

Bonjour à tous,
J'ai un gros problème depuis la dernière mise à jour DCS.
J'utilise le casque VARJO AERO et j'applique les conditions ci-dessous :
 

"NOUVEAU - Commentaire : DCS multithread via Varjo OpenXR

1. DCS MT ne produit OpenXR qu'à l'heure actuelle (sur les casques Varjo, il utilise Varjo OpenXR en contournant Steam), il ne nécessite donc pas de raccourci ou de lignes de commande pour s'exécuter, mais vous devez vous assurer d'exécuter l'application à partir du bon dossier qui est \ bin -mt\ (l'ancienne application DCS réside toujours dans le dossier \bin\ qui est monothread).  Cela deviendra probablement le mode préféré de la plupart des utilisateurs, car il offre les meilleures performances et les meilleurs visuels par rapport aux autres modes lorsqu'il est associé à Dynamic Foveation, même au début de la sortie.

2. Cette version prend en charge la fovéation dynamique, mais nécessite le mod Varjo Foveated de mbuchia pour fonctionner.  (  Accueil · mbucchia/Varjo-Foveated Wiki · GitHub  ).  Les fichiers sont installés dans le dossier %ProgramFiles%\OpenXR-Varjo-Foveated\, au cas où vous auriez besoin de les supprimer autorisés.  Vous pouvez toujours forcer le mode d'affichage stéréo via le wrapper d'extensions d'instance de mbucchia (  GitHub - mbucchia/OpenXR-InstanceExtensionsWrapper : un wrapper d'exécution OpenXR pour masquer les extensions d'instance sélectionnées.  ). Utilisez uniquement l'un ou l'autre de ces mods car ils ne sont pas compatibles les uns avec les autres, le dernier désactive la vue quadruple tandis que le premier favorise la vue quadruple avec suivi oculaire.

3. Si le mod Varjo Foveated est utilisé, la boîte à outils OpenXR doit être désactivée (via l'application compagnon) ou désinstallée.  Alternativement, vous pouvez également désactiver sélectivement DCS à partir de la liste des jeux pris en charge dans l'application compagnon OXRTK.

4. Dans l'application Varjo Base, vous devez activer Varjo OpenXR.  (L'environnement d'exécution Steam OpenXR fonctionnera également mais ne prend pas en charge le DFR, d'où des performances médiocres).  Varjo OpenVR doit également être activé pour une compatibilité générale avec les applications SteamVR qui utilisent généralement l'API OpenVR.

5. Exécutez DCS.exe directement à partir de \bin-mt\ ou créez un nouveau raccourci pour celui-ci.

6. Vous remarquerez également le processus d'arrière-plan Varjo Gaze dans le gestionnaire de tâches, qui indique que DFR est actif."

 

Tout fonctionne très bien et très fluide sur la version DCS 2.8.6.41363 Bêta ouverte  -  22.06.2023  mais  depuis la mise à jour  DCS 2.8.7.42718 Bêta ouverte  -  28.07.2023   J'ai d'énormes pertes de FPS et des gros lags. J'ai deux disques durs sur lesquels DCS OPENBETA sont installés avec les mêmes paramètres, le même pilote Nvidia, la même version VarjoBase sauf la version DCS.

Ancienne version je suis stable avec 75 à 90 fps alors qu'avec la dernière version je chute à 18 - 25fps

J'ai plusieurs fois essayé de tout désinstaller puis de réinstaller mais impossible de comprendre mon problème.

Du coup, je ne peux plus jouer en multi-joueurs

pouvez-vous à m'aider s'il vous plait!!!!!!

You know, you are in an english forum?


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Dunno why this happens as I experience this with MiG-29 and F-14. It also happen quite consistently when I check six.