F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls

[Bucic]

 

 

[Bucic]

Here's the plan for the next immediate steps:

- ***throttle grips (LIST OF NON-STANDARD SWITCHES FIRST!) + additional view controls (zoom wheel, button)

- review of the new gun trigger by TheSimNet

- all hall sensors + FreeJoy working

- left console and most used front panels (LIST OF NON-STANDARD SWITCHES FIRST!)

 

For the ***throttle grips the key is, as I've figured, to actually make the switches (including the attachments) first. 

 

Does anyone have any info on the tigh-space-compatible 3 position swtich that is used for throttle countermeasures rocker? Obviously I'm after a cheapo equivalent that is stiff but compact, not the original. Edit: the original seem to be https://www.otto-controls.com/sl-slide-switch-in-commercial-and-military-grades

 

EDIT:
And for some motivation
Taiwanese ROCAF F-5E/F dogfight training - YouTube —

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Bucic

[Bucic]

  As much as I appreciate the help we got from @agrasyuk I don't think T-38 references are of much use to me. I figured that once I learned about the standard avia rack panel dimensions in the imperial world there's not much more I can derive from T-348 reference. At least for my use. For this reason I'm proceeding with references taken from DCS ModelViewer. As cumbersome as it is, I managed to squeeze some reference shots from it.

 

Attached is a GIMP project file with dimension reference for the entire front-bottom part of the F-5E cockpit (separate wireframe and regular image layers):

I'll be dimensioning it and cutting the cockpit actual sheet metal panel (not the label cover plates) soon. If you feel you can dimension it to a higher standard, be my guest

 

A re-paste from my previous post:

@Bcamel1 Hi! No worries. I come and go in waves as well. Look what I found the other day. That might be "common knowledge" to some, it wasn't to me. Also some T-38 Cockpit Familiarization Trainer.

https://www.simpits.org/fileproc/showfiles.php

 

 

Here's my plan for right now

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/318106-f-5e-simpit-cockpit-dimensions-and-flight-controls/?do=findComment&comment=5349053

 

 

f-5e_cockpit_reference_orthoMV_frontCPlow_01.7z

[Bucic]

[agrasyuk]

@Bucic Do you want this?

 

[Bucic]

3 hours ago, agrasyuk said:

@Bucic Do you want this?

 

Sure I do! But it depends on the price. Please PM or email me.

Speaking of...

 

[Bucic]

Wow, I didn't expect this! The panel proportions in the sim are completely off. The following reference is a photo of a real F-5E panel cover plate. Even after rescaling the reference to the sim panel. I'm not after full fidelity but without even proportions right in the sim 3D model I don't know what to do with it and how to proceed...

The horizontal error is 152.25:163.73

In the real thing the 152.25 is 6" and the distance the 6 weapon stations toggle switches are distributed across (1" spacing exactly).

 

Edited February 3, 2024 by Bucic

[Bucic]

On the other hand I haven't found a single real F-5E with the top-right corner of the panel shaped like the referemce panel. All my F-5E reference photos have the panel shaped like the one below.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2024 by Bucic

[No1sonuk]

3 hours ago, Bucic said:

Wow, I didn't expect this! The panel proportions in the sim are completely off. The following reference is a photo of a real F-5E panel cover plate. Even after rescaling the reference to the sim panel. I'm not after full fidelity but without even proportions right in the sim 3D model I don't know what to do with it and how to proceed...

The horizontal error is 152.25:163.73

In the real thing the 152.25 is 6" and the distance the 6 weapon stations toggle switches are distributed across (1" spacing exactly).

 

 

Could that be a camera perspective problem?
If you have the panel and a flat bed scanner, you can get a flat image with no perspective problems.

[Bucic]

14 hours ago, No1sonuk said:

Could that be a camera perspective problem?
If you have the panel and a flat bed scanner, you can get a flat image with no perspective problems.

Photo of the real thing:

No, not really. Based on the grid in the photo I have corrected for 99% of lens and direction distortions.

ModelViewer:

In case if the ModelViewer reference I used the ORTHOGRAPHIC mode so no perspective distortion. Foreshortening is still a thing but I made sure the camera is 90 degrees to the plane of the panels withing +/- 3 degrees. Something is seriously out of whack here.

 

I'm pausing the work on the panels until I figure it out. I might well go with the Model Viewer references to at least have the completeness and consistency. Hornet guys have it too easy!

Edited February 4, 2024 by Bucic

[Deadman]

When I was gathering information on A-10 A and C panels. I found the Ed had to work off of very limited information and measurements so the goal was to make it look right in the simulator and not be biased on hard facts.

[_BringTheReign_]

On 2/3/2024 at 11:01 AM, Bucic said:

Wow, I didn't expect this! The panel proportions in the sim are completely off. The following reference is a photo of a real F-5E panel cover plate. Even after rescaling the reference to the sim panel. I'm not after full fidelity but without even proportions right in the sim 3D model I don't know what to do with it and how to proceed...

This is the reason I have put off my F-5 pit project entirely... even if built 1:1 to the real thing, the DCS one is still an artists impression. This is why I have been so vocal in the forums for an art update to the F-5E - it's really showing its age and in the era of laser scanned sub millimeter accuracy (a la Heatblur) it's no longer acceptable to be so far off of the real thing. I'll pay $15 for an upgrade if it means making the module more accurate.

And I'm not even a rivet counter!!

[Bucic]

1 hour ago, _BringTheReign_ said:

This is the reason I have put off my F-5 pit project entirely... even if built 1:1 to the real thing, the DCS one is still an artists impression. This is why I have been so vocal in the forums for an art update to the F-5E - it's really showing its age and in the era of laser scanned sub millimeter accuracy (a la Heatblur) it's no longer acceptable to be so far off of the real thing. I'll pay $15 for an upgrade if it means making the module more accurate.

And I'm not even a rivet counter!!

There was a guy who reported it years ago. Imported the model to Blender and did some chcecks. Does anyone have a link?

I don't mind the in-game model being artist's impression. But I'm waiting for the real weapons panel to arrive by mail and as you can imagine it is going to make things difficult. Especially that I have already cut the plates. From a 2 mm thick steel. At my home (no dedicated workshop)! I left the tabs for bending to 90 degrees. If they are enough to sacrifice to save the plates, I'll do just that. If not... I don't know. I'll probably buy additional plates

 

The thing is I'm only making the weapons and fuel system panels. If required, I'm going to freaking do my own artist impression.

I spoke with a mil demo pilot with lots of international contacts recently. No '5-related contacts sadly.

There are methods of projecting free hand photos onto 3 main projection planes. Including a manual method! But I'm not up for it. At all.

 

Edited February 4, 2024 by Bucic

[Bucic]

Found the posts about the Belsimtek's 3D model discrepancies. @rubylight

 is the man.

 

 

[Deadman]

Ya he is with a bit of help LOL that is a post from the past.

[Bucic]

58 minutes ago, Deadman said:

Ya he is with a bit of help LOL that is a post from the past.

The photo by Yen I posted above is the single best real reference I have. Have you got anything else?

[Deadman]

Could you be more specific? witch picture did yen post?

[Bucic]

This one. It's the Lowes POV with the least distortion I could find.

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/318106-f-5e-simpit-cockpit-dimensions-and-flight-controls/?do=findComment&comment=5376951

 

[Deadman]

Ok and what do you want the size of personally I think  scaling off of picture is a waist of time but there is a tone of know measurement on that MIP

[Bucic]

7 hours ago, Deadman said:

Ok and what do you want the size of personally I think  scaling off of picture is a waist of time but there is a tone of know measurement on that MIP

It might be a waste of time if you have other references. I don't.

Left and right lower front panels are needed at minimum.

[Deadman]

What do you mean by the Left and right lower front panels specifically. It is a waist of time do to he amount of error that can and will happen in my experience. I have been doing this for a wile.

[Bucic]

On 2/14/2024 at 6:14 AM, Deadman said:

What do you mean by the Left and right lower front panels specifically. It is a waist of time do to he amount of error that can and will happen in my experience. I have been doing this for a wile.

Left vertical panel. Right vertical panel.

[Deadman]

Can you just post a pic please?

 

[Bucic]

1 hour ago, Deadman said:

Can you just post a pic please?

 

[Bucic]

I've just found what has to be the best reference for the vertical panels on the inner webs. The point of view is even lower than in the photo by Yen.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Taiwan-Air-Force/Northrop-AIDC-F-5F-Tiger-II/946505/L