7800X3D, 7900X3D, 7950X3D..

[some1]

Solid investigation about the recent issues.

 

[Hoirtel]

1 minute ago, some1 said:

Solid investigation about the recent issues.

 

Yeah literally just finished watching it. So glad they are doing this... but what a crazy mess. Feels like this is a bad result of competition to intel, with AMD just pushing tech to the point of it almost not being suitable for mass market.

[LucShep]

35 minutes ago, some1 said:

Solid investigation about the recent issues.

 

Indeed, excelent work as always by the GN Team. 

I just feel manufacturers are borderline scamming the customers/users.
Realizing how motherboards got increasingly ubber expensive (double the price compared to older iterations) and yet, bugs aside, they still lack protections.

With Intel, I recall dozens of systems built where I'd need to lock the vCore, and especially the VCCIO and VCCSA, to "normal" levels, as some motherboards would have those placed at sky high values once XMP was loaded, not just with "load optimized defaults" (and temps going crazy). Most users would be unaware of this, it's just not right. 

Now it's bugs with AM5 motherboards...
I think I'll refrain from recommending an AM5 system (X3D mostly) to friends and customers until this is fixed.  Feels like a friggin "early acess game"!

Meanwhile, how are you guys countering this issue? Any good "safe" solutions so far?

Edited April 30, 2023 by LucShep

[Hoirtel]

48 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Indeed, excelent work as always by the GN Team. 

I just feel manufacturers are borderline scamming the customers/users.
Realizing how motherboards got increasingly ubber expensive (double the price compared to older iterations) and yet, bugs aside, they still lack protections.

With Intel, I recall dozens of systems built where I'd need to lock the vCore, and especially the VCCIO and VCCSA, to "normal" levels, as some motherboards would have those placed at sky high values once XMP was loaded, not just with "load optimized defaults" (and temps going crazy). Most users would be unaware of this, it's just not right. 

Now it's bugs with AM5 motherboards...
I think I'll refrain from recommending an AM5 system (X3D mostly) to friends and customers until this is fixed.  Feels like a friggin "early acess game"!

Meanwhile, how are you guys countering this issue? Any good "safe" solutions so far?

 

My X3D has been totally fine and cool, but then it is still in the box... 

[EightyDuce]

Good video. Shows how sloppy some protections were handled. Also shows how unlikely this is to actually occur due to a cascading of issues that culminate is a catastrophic failure. 

 

As for countering the issue... I've ran at a manual SOC (1.2-1.25v) since day one due to manually tuning memory. Other than  that, update the BIOS and carry on with your life.

[SilentSierra]

I purchased the ASUS motherboard, it looks like I did a wrong choice.

What is the OCP that Nexus said in the video? Is some BIOS setting? Or is it a component of mobo?

[BitMaster]

OCP is usually a PSU feature, Over-Current-Protection.

Maybe they use some kind of OCP in boards now, heck, it would make sense.

There is also OVP, over voltage protection, and a few other protection circuits in good PSU's, just to clarify.

[SilentSierra]

A purchased a PSU not that good, full modular 1000w Cybernets Gold 80 Plus with 12VHPWR cable.

I hope that don't explode my stuffs.

[SilentSierra]

BIOS Update as BETA and without warrant.

Edited April 30, 2023 by SilentSierra

[EightyDuce]

20 minutes ago, SilentSierra said:

BIOS Update as BETA and without warrant.

 

Not warrantied because it is a BETA release. If you wait a couple days the stable version should be out.

Shouldn't explode your stuffs any more than anything else. I would wait for a stable release.

[BitMaster]

How I love this attitude.

Here, the fix you wanted and need... but hey, if you use it and it kills your stuff, it's not our fault !

Same as XMP end Expo voids warranty....but put it in every ad for every CPU.

 

We call this "scheinheilig"  and it is a real bad attitude

 

*let's count the days until a stable release follows, I have run Asus for all my and their live, let's see.

Edited April 30, 2023 by BitMaster

[muzica9]

20 hours ago, SilentSierra said:

BIOS Update as BETA and without warrant.

 

Asus has been a joke for a while.

 

  

On 4/30/2023 at 9:59 AM, some1 said:

Solid investigation about the recent issues.

 

What to understand after watch full video and conclusion? The bios updates do not solve the problem? Issue is bigger than software?

Edited May 1, 2023 by muzica9

[Fakum]

LOL on me,,, I built my rig yesterday, updated right away to 1414 Bios and through the entire process of installing Windows 10, at no time could I get the PC to boot right up off either the Windows Bootable media or the M2 boot manager (once created) unless I go direct into BIOS and select Boot Override. Boot options are set to do so but no joy. Ive got about 10 hours just into reading and watching next to useless videos on how to setup the BIOS. It has something to do with the initial "New CPU Added" prompt when I 1st started up and the fTMP settings etc. Everything I have done so far for settings appears to be set right, but no joy. Im hoping its because its the BETA BIOS, and not something more severe. I have posts and pics over on ASUS Forums and Anandtech Forums,,, no responses since yesterday though,,,, ugggg

[LucShep]

heh...? 
 

 

[Fakum]

22 hours ago, Fakum said:

LOL on me,,, I built my rig yesterday, updated right away to 1414 Bios and through the entire process of installing Windows 10, at no time could I get the PC to boot right up off either the Windows Bootable media or the M2 boot manager (once created) unless I go direct into BIOS and select Boot Override. Boot options are set to do so but no joy. Ive got about 10 hours just into reading and watching next to useless videos on how to setup the BIOS. It has something to do with the initial "New CPU Added" prompt when I 1st started up and the fTMP settings etc. Everything I have done so far for settings appears to be set right, but no joy. Im hoping its because its the BETA BIOS, and not something more severe. I have posts and pics over on ASUS Forums and Anandtech Forums,,, no responses since yesterday though,,,, ugggg

I realize this is not really relevant to this thread at this point, but since I mentioned it here, I figured I would share this as my issue wasnt the BIOS at all and I resolved it via phone call to ASUS. Here is what I posted in the ASUS & ANANDTECH forums when I was trying to get some help:

"Dis-regard. After 3 days, I called ASUS. Bottom line was. I had my Arctic CPU AIO cooler plugged into the CPU AIO Header, instead of the CPU Fan Header (As the manual states to do) and when plugged into the CPU Fan header now, all boots up fine. WTF with all the hours of research! At least im good now, was ready to order a new MOBO and send this one back via prime,,,,"

[blkspade]

On 4/30/2023 at 2:48 PM, BitMaster said:

How I love this attitude.

Here, the fix you wanted and need... but hey, if you use it and it kills your stuff, it's not our fault !

Same as XMP end Expo voids warranty....but put it in every ad for every CPU.

 

We call this "scheinheilig"  and it is a real bad attitude

 

*let's count the days until a stable release follows, I have run Asus for all my and their live, let's see.

 

While Intel has long been considering XMP an OC to deny RMA, AMD does not. I've done a RMA for both a Ryzen 7 2700 and an i7  7700K. Intel's asks about you using XMP in the questions, AMD doesn't.

[LucShep]

2 hours ago, blkspade said:

While Intel has long been considering XMP an OC to deny RMA, AMD does not. I've done a RMA for both a Ryzen 7 2700 and an i7  7700K. Intel's asks about you using XMP in the questions, AMD doesn't.

Nonsense, it's the exact same for both of them, Intel and AMD. They draw a line in the sand, likely to reduce legal liability.
Overclocking is not covered under any manufacturers warranty. Both Intel XMP and AMD EXPO are classified as overclocking, so memory overclocking would fall under that same umbrella, both by Intel and AMD. It's no different from one to another, and goes regardless of RMA questionary.

Don't believe me?   
Ask both Intel and AMD customer support about it.

For so many years, the factory ("OC") profiles of every RAM manufacturer sit in a grey area, where, in practice, both CPU and motherboard manufacturers, more often than not, turn a blind eye and ignore it. Because they know the mem kits are designed, thoroughly tested, sold and meant to run with such profiles, without any issues, with their own CPUs and motherboards. Yet, there is no written "asterisc" that dismisses Intel XMP or AMD EXPO once and for all (as should be) for the warranty void issues.  This is the problem.

Edited May 2, 2023 by LucShep

[blkspade]

4 hours ago, LucShep said:

Nonsense, it's the exact same for both of them, Intel and AMD. They draw a line in the sand, likely to reduce legal liability.
Overclocking is not covered under any manufacturers warranty. Both Intel XMP and AMD EXPO are classified as overclocking, so memory overclocking would fall under that same umbrella, both by Intel and AMD. It's no different from one to another, and goes regardless of RMA questionary.

Don't believe me?   
Ask both Intel and AMD customer support about it.

For so many years, the factory ("OC") profiles of every RAM manufacturer sit in a grey area, where, in practice, both CPU and motherboard manufacturers, more often than not, turn a blind eye and ignore it. Because they know the mem kits are designed, thoroughly tested, sold and meant to run with such profiles, without any issues, with their own CPUs and motherboards. Yet, there is no written "asterisc" that dismisses Intel XMP or AMD EXPO once and for all (as should be) for the warranty void issues.  This is the problem.

 

Well EXPO itself is new, which may have come with a policy change, but as I said I've literally done RMAs on both sides just a few of years ago. Only Intel's warranty claim questionnaire specifically asked about XMP. It also took several emails to get them to RMA it. The AMD process was pretty much, explain what happened, oh here's your new CPU after shipping the dead one. It was surprisingly painless.

[muzica9]

why is not better than intel 12900 in this video?

 

[BitMaster]

To be fair,

when I wrecked my 6700k in a Asus Z170 Extreme board I openly told them it happened while the board did it's auto-tuning feature, somewhere north of 4.7GHz.

They replaced the CPU w/o any complications.

 

Still, the XMP/EXPO-Warranty issue should be solved

Edited May 3, 2023 by BitMaster

[some1]

1 hour ago, muzica9 said:

why is not better than intel 12900 in this video?

I don't think he's testing at the same system settings, on the Ryzen 7800X3D side his GPU seems to have consistently higher utilization % than on the Intel side at the same FPS. Maybe HAGS on vs off?

On the other hand his CPU utilization is higher on Intel even though Intel has more cores and it should show less % at the same load. 

 

[muzica9]

36 minutes ago, some1 said:

I don't think he's testing at the same system settings, on the Ryzen 7800X3D side his GPU seems to have consistently higher utilization % than on the Intel side at the same FPS. Maybe HAGS on vs off?

On the other hand his CPU utilization is higher on Intel even though Intel has more cores and it should show less % at the same load. 

 

 

Yes but look at cpu frametime not only at fps

[some1]

And what? If all settings are the same, then why the GPU is loaded more at the same FPS? And if settings are different, then all comparisons are pointless.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by some1

[shazam253]

At the very beginning, you'll see that two different DCS version were used. The AMD run is on a slightly newer version than the Intel run.

There's an updated video, however, it arrives at the same results.

I would guess that DCS is actually benefiting from the more cores on the Intel 12900k. Would be interesting to see, how it fares against the 7950x3d

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by shazam253

[Hoirtel]

Interesting... and a bit of a blow along with the current X3D issues... To be really sure what's happening it would be nice to see a proper benchmark that has additional load on it. I don't think flying round an empty Caucasus map is the best test, however I wouldn't expect big leads either way. I would prefer to see it over a big city on Syria or over Marianas with some added units.

What is a bit more unknown for me is that all the tests are really at the frame lock of the headset so not really unconstrained, it does look like the 12900 has more to give and the 7800 doesn't, but the constraining behaviour could just be different. There is terrible aliasing so I would assume the resolution is low which is how they test 2D games, but for a headset with an FPS lock this doesn't really work. 

Other thing to consider is the recording itself, intel may be better at multitasking like this.

Having said the above, can't see there would be a be massive difference rather than trading blows at best. Anyone wanna buy a unused x3d...