F-15C Practice

[bond672]

I wonder if it's worth firing up FC3 and practice some formation flying with the tanker in the F15C just to get the picture in preparation for the F15e

Simon. 

[Nahen]

Same cockpit layout (same habits in finding a place under the tanker), in the same place the refueling socket, E should behave at refueling speeds almost exactly like C - so it will only help you, it certainly won't hurt.

[bond672]

That's my thought process too. Start to get some practice in. 

[Dscross]

I've be practicing AAR with the F15C as well. I make it a point to ALWAYS bring three bags to add some weight and drag. If I'm just going up to tank I also load AIM-7s as they look bigger and I assume they're modeled for a little more drag. I suppose I could test the speed of an F15 and Hornet with Sparrows instead of AIM-120s, but I'm just assuming here. Anyway, I make the jet as heavy as possible and as much drag as I can give it, then I go tank. 

lately there seems to be an on/ off again bug where the boom tankers won't call "transfer complete" in the F15. today I was flying my Tomcat and tanked that from 9000 pounds to full. While the Tomcat isn't a boom refuel and it uses the basket, it's a big Jet with lots of stuff hanging off. I also try and Tomcat tank the F14 while carrying a Targeting pod and 4x GBU16 for the weight and drag. 

In the mission editor the AI F15E has around 38,000 pounds of gas, so either way you're going to be sitting under the tanker for a bit if you've got 3 tanks plus internal fuel to fill. Do I think I'll need to tank often in the F15E? Nope. Will I? you bet. 

I've also been putting time in tanking various A10's with payloads, but I don't really think that compares much (apart from both using a boom.) 

Apart from the failure of the tanker to sometimes tell you that you're full in the F15 C, the flow rate of the fuel seems off. One of the guys in my squadron was a crew chief on a KC135, and he seems sure that the flow rate on the KC135 in DCS is wrong, as in too slow. I am hoping that the flow rate is adjusted for the KC135, but either way, it's good practice to stay behind the tanker. I'm glad I'm not the only one hitting the tanker in my F15C. But again, if you have the Tomcat, I'd say tanking any big 2 engine jet is going to be useful practice. 

 

EDIT:

I'm now wondering how tanking the F4 will be, as that cockpit wasn't known for great visibility. That'll be fun!

Edited March 30, 2023 by Dscross
F4 tanking thought

[Eviscerador]

IIRC the fuel flow of the boom system is more than twice of that of the basket. That's the main strenght of the system. Of course the basket is more flexible (pun intended) and that's the reason everyone else uses it.

With the boom, you need a dedicated design and operator. With the basket, all you need is a fuel tank with a basket and you can fit it at any plane.

[Father Cool]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:39 AM, Dscross said:

I've be practicing AAR with the F15C as well. I make it a point to ALWAYS bring three bags to add some weight and drag. If I'm just going up to tank I also load AIM-7s as they look bigger and I assume they're modeled for a little more drag. I suppose I could test the speed of an F15 and Hornet with Sparrows instead of AIM-120s, but I'm just assuming here. Anyway, I make the jet as heavy as possible and as much drag as I can give it, then I go tank. 

lately there seems to be an on/ off again bug where the boom tankers won't call "transfer complete" in the F15. today I was flying my Tomcat and tanked that from 9000 pounds to full. While the Tomcat isn't a boom refuel and it uses the basket, it's a big Jet with lots of stuff hanging off. I also try and Tomcat tank the F14 while carrying a Targeting pod and 4x GBU16 for the weight and drag. 

In the mission editor the AI F15E has around 38,000 pounds of gas, so either way you're going to be sitting under the tanker for a bit if you've got 3 tanks plus internal fuel to fill. Do I think I'll need to tank often in the F15E? Nope. Will I? you bet. 

I've also been putting time in tanking various A10's with payloads, but I don't really think that compares much (apart from both using a boom.) 

Apart from the failure of the tanker to sometimes tell you that you're full in the F15 C, the flow rate of the fuel seems off. One of the guys in my squadron was a crew chief on a KC135, and he seems sure that the flow rate on the KC135 in DCS is wrong, as in too slow. I am hoping that the flow rate is adjusted for the KC135, but either way, it's good practice to stay behind the tanker. I'm glad I'm not the only one hitting the tanker in my F15C. But again, if you have the Tomcat, I'd say tanking any big 2 engine jet is going to be useful practice. 

 

EDIT:

I'm now wondering how tanking the F4 will be, as that cockpit wasn't known for great visibility. That'll be fun!

 

Try tanking in the F14, that will give you an idea what the visibility is like in the F4 for tanking.

[Dscross]

On 4/11/2023 at 8:17 AM, Father Cool said:

Try tanking in the F14, that will give you an idea what the visibility is like in the F4 for tanking.

I tank the F14 regularly. It's one of the more demanding aircraft to AAR, but it isn't terrible But yeah a combo of large fuel tanks, overbearing trim speed, and canopy bow do make it more challenging than for example the Hornet, which is a baby to AAR, and second only to the M2000 in ease of tanking. (in my opinion, at least for me.) But I think tanking the A10 is easy, and lots of people say they have problems with it. 

 

[Father Cool]

14 hours ago, Dscross said:

I tank the F14 regularly. It's one of the more demanding aircraft to AAR, but it isn't terrible But yeah a combo of large fuel tanks, overbearing trim speed, and canopy bow do make it more challenging than for example the Hornet, which is a baby to AAR, and second only to the M2000 in ease of tanking. (in my opinion, at least for me.) But I think tanking the A10 is easy, and lots of people say they have problems with it. 

 

Yes agreed, I think the F4's canopy front is pretty much the same as the F-14, so suggested it for visibility comparison.

[sirrah]

In an attempt to feed my hunger for the Mudhen , I also did some AAR practicing with the F-15C (I have FC3 for years, but I hardly ever touched it, so in that respect I'm new to the F-15C).

I've created a very simple mission and chose a 3 droptank config and 90% fuel, to somewhat simulate the heavier Strike Eagle.

Although I kinda managed to make contact on the first try, I did notice that the pitch axis in the FC3 Eagle is (imho) extremely sensitive. Only after putting some curvature on the Y-axis was I able to properly stay connected (generally I don't like, nor ever use axis curves). Normally I'm the first one to say: "practice more and you won't need axis curves", but I don't recall I ever had this kind of pitch sensitivity (well... apart from maybe the Gazelle ).

 

Did anyone else notice this?

I kinda hope, that the Mudhen will not be this sensitive, but I guess we'll have to wait and see  

[Dscross]

26 minutes ago, sirrah said:

In an attempt to feed my hunger for the Mudhen , I also did some AAR practicing with the F-15C (I have FC3 for years, but I hardly ever touched it, so in that respect I'm new to the F-15C).

I've created a very simple mission and chose a 3 droptank config and 90% fuel, to somewhat simulate the heavier Strike Eagle.

Although I kinda managed to make contact on the first try, I did notice that the pitch axis in the FC3 Eagle is (imho) extremely sensitive. Only after putting some curvature on the Y-axis was I able to properly stay connected (generally I don't like, nor ever use axis curves). Normally I'm the first one to say: "practice more and you won't need axis curves", but I don't recall I ever had this kind of pitch sensitivity (well... apart from maybe the Gazelle ).

 

Did anyone else notice this?

I kinda hope, that the Mudhen will not be this sensitive, but I guess we'll have to wait and see  

What stick are you using? I've never had curves on the F15, so it makes me curious. I'm also of the "don't hamfist and you won't need curves" school. And check if you turned off the pitch stability control by accident. (It's bindable, but I can't remember the default.) 

 

[sirrah]

5 minutes ago, Dscross said:

What stick are you using? I've never had curves on the F15, so it makes me curious. I'm also of the "don't hamfist and you won't need curves" school. And check if you turned off the pitch stability control by accident. (It's bindable, but I can't remember the default.) 

 

Using a TM warthog stick with 10cm extension (never had any issues with sensitivity before, apart from maybe the aforementioned Gazelle )

I didn't know there was a pitch stability control thingy (as I said "new on the Eagle), though I don't think I accidentally switched it off as I didn't really touch anything other than the AAR door and the radio menu.

Ah well.. It's not a big deal anyways.. I personally doubt that it'll really help getting used to the F-15C, as I would actually be very surprised if two different devs would be able to recreate the same flight characteristics.