HTC Vive Elite XR

[Sr.]

1 hour ago, Baseline_ said:

I'm sorry to see that Sr. had such a bad experience with the XR Elite. Mine is apparently completely different. First some quick context. I am 57 my gaming experience goes all the way back to being one of the first kids in my neighborhood to have a Texas Instruments Pong video game console. My simulation teeth were cut on the likes of Microprose F117 Stealth and a healthy dose of Janes ATF and Longbow and of course Falcon 3.0. In the 90's it was Strike Commander, AirWarrior and in 2000 it was WWII Online and Eve. I have dreamed of a simulation with realistic graphics that could really immerse me and make me truly believe I am not just playing a game but actually flying. 

My relevant system specs are as follows,

Intel 13th gen 13900k

64 Gigs DDR5

RTX 4090

WinWing F16 stick and throttle

MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

HTC Vive XR Elite

I am going to qualify my following comments with this one important fact. The XR Elite is the first VR headset I have even ever tried on, so in fairness I have nothing to compare it to. That said what I have experienced to date with just three days since it arrived is nothing short of astonishing. All I can say is that if you've never flown DCS in VR than you've not really flown DCS as a simulator, but as a game instead. I know that's a strong statement likely to generate some push back but I can't help but know it's true after what I've experienced so far. I can't believe that we've progressed to the point of this level of visual fidelity at the consumer level. Sadly the only way to see what I've seen is try one for yourself. Is it perfect? No but damn, what it can do is mind blowing.

All I can say in my early verdict is, Jesus this thing is amazing and I have Zero regrets purchasing it. I'm so happy to have lived in a time where this could become reality and I'm going to relish every hour I get to be a VR pilot.

Glad it worked for you. I can imagine your delight being this is you're first VR experience.

If you don't mind, typing up a "How I got the Elite XR to work with DCS/Steam VR." how to.

 

I threw every prior knowledge of DCS/VR I had at it, even trying a few other titles and as far as I ever got to "seeing" anything was the Halflife Alyx load screen and could hear the canned radio chatter and music effects. Could see the rubble strewn floor, but never a menu etc, that would be about the time SteamVR CTD ... again.  I recall seeing one small menu window on screen prompting me to press the menu button on the left controller to enter SteamVR, but pressing it did absolutely nothing. I could see the LED around the button indicating I had pressed, but again, nothing.

 

After 6+ hours of that, recalling the $1200 I had just plunked down for it and history of the ease of use with the G2 and WMR, I decided to stick with what I knew.

I still cannot justify the price point for the Elite XR, considering you get the HMD and 2 bargain bin controllers. For that kind of money I was expecting a pair of Lighthouse trackers and/or Index type controllers. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Sr.

[Baseline_]

My install experience was a breeze. I installed the Vive Manager app on my phone went through the setup steps, only the automatic control pairing didn't seem to work but hitting the manual link fixed that. Then it was install Steam VR and Vive Streaming Hub app and I was in. It really was that easy for me. The only other strange issue was I had to disable the controllers in DCS because with them enabled my F16 Joystick just wouldn't work. After that it was on to a mind blowing experience of feeling like I was really sitting in an F16 and actually flying. I can easily imagine that adding a simple motion chair into the mix and the illusion would be complete.

[Sr.]

1 hour ago, Baseline_ said:

My install experience was a breeze. I installed the Vive Manager app on my phone went through the setup steps, only the automatic control pairing didn't seem to work but hitting the manual link fixed that. Then it was install Steam VR and Vive Streaming Hub app and I was in. It really was that easy for me. The only other strange issue was I had to disable the controllers in DCS because with them enabled my F16 Joystick just wouldn't work. After that it was on to a mind blowing experience of feeling like I was really sitting in an F16 and actually flying. I can easily imagine that adding a simple motion chair into the mix and the illusion would be complete.

Cool, so you started from scratch basically? I have a feeling my pre-existing VR environment of SteamVR and OpenXR might have added to my difficulties, but I wasn't near in the mood for an OS reload after the SVR reinstall had no change.

[Baseline_]

Indeed this system I just built a couple weeks ago. I will test the Elite on my older system with a 3080 12GB and just for fun I've also setup my Alienware R17 with 1070 GTX to see if it can maybe run Subnautica. I plan to look at a Crystal and I may pick one up just to compare the two. I honestly think it sucks it was giving you issues because if you had managed to get in game I bet once you saw the clarity of the cockpit in such stunning detail you would have been sold on it. We'll see how it holds up over the long haul now but my initial impressions are still of stunned disbelief. A couple of reasons for me waiting on the Elite to get into VR were people I trusted telling me about the early headset issues i.e. screen door etc.. and the problem for those that wear glasses as I do (I am aware of the company that now makes script lenses for most headsets).

Edited April 3, 2023 by Baseline_

[Habu_69]

@ Baseline_  Quite interested in your experience with the 3080 12G, as that is the vid card I have currently; and I am planning to get back into VR this year with one of the new Gen headsets. Planning on a MB/CPU upgrade, but wondering if I will need to upgrade my video. I now have 32G RAM and suspect that those new headsets will greatly benefit from 64G.

[Mk1_Trebuchet]

@Baseline_ You and I share very, very similar biographies. Although I never got Pong, the family got a Ti-99/4a (with the cassette tape drive) for Christmas. Otherwise, yea same path.  All the way up to the current, freshly built rig... 

I had the same mind-bending experience when I put on a VR headset in DCS. I ended up going with the HP Reverb G2, and have had an overall good experience with it.  Looking at the landscape of upcoming headsets I can't say I'm overly excited about any of them really. Understanding the current limitations of the DCS engine, I think I'm getting about as good performance as I could expect.  From the hardware perspective, the only real gripe I have with the HP (and other contemporaries) is that the fresnel lenses create such a small sweet spot.  Pancake lenses are the only real innovation I look forward to trying, just to get the best clarity with eye movement around the field instead of having to turn my head to the clear spots.

Understanding that you don't have a point of reference, what's your experience been glancing outside of the center of view?  Can you look 45* off bore and still read the text on instruments?

Also, what is the method of connection to the PC? (HP uses a proprietary Display Port and USB combined cable)

[Baseline_]

@Habu69 OK so my initial testing revealed the following. On my primary system 

Intel 13th gen 13900k

64 Gigs DDR5

RTX 4090

WinWing F16 stick and throttle

MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

HTC Vive XR Elite

With max settings I averaged 53fps and I have to tell you FPS wasn't even something I was even wondering about. The experience was smooth and breathtaking. This was tethered streaming using a USB -C cable that was just a long cable I already had. I am in process of testing the wireless streaming, however for DCS sessions I don't imagine I will use wireless due to playtime on battery power.

For my old system 

Intel 8th gen 8700k

32 Gigs DDR4

RTX 3080 12Gig

I managed a playable 33fps average. While it certainly is playable I will admit that there is some noticeable stuttering when moving my head rapidly. 

Both tests were with a pixel density of 1. On my primary I tested a pixel density of 2 and the impact was massive without any real noticeable improvement in quality tanking the fps to just an average of 23 and inducing the same stuttering. I suspect i could clean up the stuttering on my old system by trying a lower pixel density. I will test this and report my findings.

[Baseline_]

@Mk1_Trebuchetmy experience has been the image is clear everywhere except the extreme edges. Options are a USB-C cable or wifi 6 streaming. However your pc must be hardwired to the wireless router to use the wifi streaming. The thing I noticed the most is the somewhat narrow FOV. It takes a bit of getting used to but after awhile you get used to it. It reminds me a lot of that old arcade submarine game Sea Wolf. One aircraft where you really don't notice it at all and almost feels like that's how it would seem anyway is in flying the Apache. With that monocle your FOV already seems limited so you really don't notice the narrowness. it's very convincing that you are actually in the aircraft.

[Sr.]

2 hours ago, Baseline_ said:

@Habu69 OK so my initial testing revealed the following. On my primary system 

Intel 13th gen 13900k

64 Gigs DDR5

RTX 4090

WinWing F16 stick and throttle

MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

HTC Vive XR Elite

With max settings I averaged 53fps and I have to tell you FPS wasn't even something I was even wondering about. The experience was smooth and breathtaking. This was tethered streaming using a USB -C cable that was just a long cable I already had. I am in process of testing the wireless streaming, however for DCS sessions I don't imagine I will use wireless due to playtime on battery power.

For my old system 

Intel 8th gen 8700k

32 Gigs DDR4

RTX 3080 12Gig

I managed a playable 33fps average. While it certainly is playable I will admit that there is some noticeable stuttering when moving my head rapidly. 

Both tests were with a pixel density of 1. On my primary I tested a pixel density of 2 and the impact was massive without any real noticeable improvement in quality tanking the fps to just an average of 23 and inducing the same stuttering. I suspect i could clean up the stuttering on my old system by trying a lower pixel density. I will test this and report my findings.

Try it with the HMD set to 60Hz... likely be some strobing looking toward brighter areas, but you should be able to maintain 60fps zero stutter or blurring. Maybe even up the resolution.

The strobe took me some getting used to but, now it's the only way I fly since I don't have to jack with motion repro or  locking frame rates etc.

Now I no longer notice.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Sr.

[Baseline_]

Some additional results and details on my initial testing. My tests were conducted on the Persian Gulf map on a custom mission I created that features a Super Carrier fleet of 5 ships a wing of AI F-14's an escort S&R helo, AWACS, a Viking for refueling, a couple civilian airliners and numerous static objects plus a large group of ground targets, tanks, trucks and infantry. All flights originated from AL Minhad AFB various airframes were tested F-5,F-14,F-15,F-16,F-18, A-10IIC,AH-64,UH-1,UH-60 the airbase had numerous static objects placed as well. Setting the pixel density to .9 yielded an average fps on the ground of 58, average fps in the air were 90 with no detectable loss in fidelity.  Overall I'm very happy with the results even at the low end of the average it was very smooth with no stuttering or frame dragging. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Baseline_

[ddc196]

I have the XR Elite. Not to happy with it in it's current state. Hopefully software updates will fix it's issues. It's also not very comfortable and has a bunch of light bleeding through the facial interface. This will probably be fixed by a third party product. Overall I'm not to happy with HTC releasing this in its current state.

Edit: I switched back to my Rift S until future updates and third party products come out.

Edited April 25, 2023 by ddc196

[ricktoberfest]

1 hour ago, ddc196 said:

I have the XR Elite. Not to happy with it in it's current state. Hopefully software updates will fix it's issues. It's also not very comfortable and has a bunch of light bleeding through the facial interface. This will probably be fixed by a third party product. Overall I'm not to happy with HTC releasing this in its current state.

Edit: I switched back to my Rift S until future updates and third party products come out.

 

I was really hoping that this would be “the one”, but turns out it isn’t. I’m also on the rift S waiting for a significant improvement before I jump to another. 

[ddc196]

4 hours ago, ricktoberfest said:

I was really hoping that this would be “the one”, but turns out it isn’t. I’m also on the rift S waiting for a significant improvement before I jump to another. 

Unfortunately, the XR Elite is not it. At least not yet. 

[dburne]

7 hours ago, ricktoberfest said:

I was really hoping that this would be “the one”, but turns out it isn’t. I’m also on the rift S waiting for a significant improvement before I jump to another. 

I would consider Reverb G2, or Vive Pro 2, to be a signicant improvement over the Rift S. I ran both of them after my Rift S previously prior to the Aero now, and found them to be nice upgrades.

[ddc196]

11 minutes ago, dburne said:

I would consider Reverb G2, or Vive Pro 2, to be a signicant improvement over the Rift S. I ran both of them after my Rift S previously prior to the Aero now, and found them to be nice upgrades.

I'm going to wait for the new Valve headset or maybe the Quest 3. Maybe some other headset will come along and get great reviews. The Varjo Aero is more than I'm willing to shell out especially since it comes with no audio, no sensors and no controllers. If I already had something like the Valve Index I would probably consider it. I'll admit, I'm a little jealous! 

[ricktoberfest]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

I would consider Reverb G2, or Vive Pro 2, to be a signicant improvement over the Rift S. I ran both of them after my Rift S previously prior to the Aero now, and found them to be nice upgrades.

Those are not enough of an upgrade to buy something at the end of its life. If HP were  going to continue in the VR world then maybe I’d go that way, but I’ve already got one discontinued  headset, don’t need another

Edited April 26, 2023 by ricktoberfest