manual is 4 years old

[Despayre]

15 hours ago, RustBelt said:

DCS being better money for value is a personal preference. ...<snip>..

 

No, it's just math, and it was explained above.

[RustBelt]

13 minutes ago, Despayre said:

No, it's just math, and it was explained above.

Ok peanut 

[IronMike]

1 hour ago, RustBelt said:

Ok peanut 

I suggest you change your attitude a bit on our forums, please, especially towards other forum members. It's not fun at all to read along anymore, and honestly, the more you display this kind of attitude, the less we care about what you would like to get.

There will be no tactical or gameplay stuff in our manuals in principle, for reasons folks explained above quite well, no need to add anything there on my part. And yes, documentation was more extensive in the 70s and 80s about pretty much everything. There also was no internet with tons of knowledge openly available to everyone to augment the basics. You had to write thick books to collect every bit of whatever information. I had 3 full encyclopedias filling almost an entire room at that time, Brockhouse, Britannica and Encyclopédie Francaise, and boy am I happy that they are gone and I can just clickly click to whatever I need to know online... 

It's not our job to teach you how to play the game, by the fact alone that there are a plethora of ways how to play the game. Why do you think we support guys like Karon, and others and provide a place where to look for their tremendously helpful work to give you a headstart with that kind of stuff? You decide how you want to play and where you want to look. Not us.

At this point, honestly, since you know everything so much better than everyone else, I suggest you go and create your own module and show us all how it is done proper...

[WinOrLose]

There is always the NATOPS if you want to read how it all works in more detail.

 

[RustBelt]

32 minutes ago, WinOrLose said:

There is always the NATOPS if you want to read how it all works in more detail.

 

Well the NATOPS we can get. And that’s primarily just non-combat systems operation. Beyond that the piles and piles of non-classified training documents. But then it becomes less a Study Sim and more a Dissertation level research sim. Aside from a few months in Covid2020 there just isn’t that kind of free time.
 

And even then, there’s always the “this doesn’t work in DCS” factor. Because the F-14 is a well made Module, but it’s still just a simulacrum. So real documents only approximately work. We’re not flying an F-14, we’re engaging a computer game made to act a lot like an F-14 within its own design limitations.

Edited March 11, 2023 by RustBelt

[Karon]

 

10 hours ago, RustBelt said:

To a game level ya stickler.

Ok, I'm looking forward to you teaching me then because after all I studied and written, the best I can do is repeat patterns and routines. That's not "mentality", it's mechanical repetition.

EDIT: just seen IM's reply and I fully agree with him. Ctrl+F is one of the most OP things ever.

 

Quote

Aside from a few months in Covid2020 there just isn’t that kind of free time.

Learning takes time, especially when it's something no one has done before (publicly for a videogame). Who would have guessed?

If you want real sources you can apply directly, grab the P-825/02 (it's on Amazon UK, for example. Google is another OP thing). You can apply it in its integrity, it helps a lot to understand the basics. The next steps are manageable only with a proper instructor, or you invent it using your experience and whatever you consider common sense, as I did. If you want my recap, head here. Scroll to the bottom and start with part IG part I.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Karon
added random stuff

[RustBelt]

On 3/8/2023 at 3:24 PM, Rongor said:

Both the online and the installed manual are from March 2019. Would somebody be so kind and eventually update these? It's a bit embarrassing to even read in the manual that some aspects will receive more detailed explanation in the future yet apparently the team forgot about it since 4 years.

Especially since the training missions like the startup procedures contain a whole ballet for the player to perform across dozens of systems and tests and there is no real sufficient documentation on what all this actually is supposed to mean.

For people who only wanna autostart and get into the air quickly to blow up some stuff War thunder style this may be totally perfect. Yet for those customers around who take the "study" part in "study sim" serious, this is a real let down situation.

Heatblur says no.

[Naquaii]

4 minutes ago, RustBelt said:

Heatblur says no.

You must be seeing things, there's no-one here saying the manual won't be updated. Not agreeing with what you think should be in a manual is a whole nother thing.

[Despayre]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:24 PM, Rongor said:

Both the online and the installed manual are from March 2019. Would somebody be so kind and eventually update these? It's a bit embarrassing to even read in the manual that some aspects will receive more detailed explanation in the future yet apparently the team forgot about it since 4 years.

On 3/8/2023 at 4:08 PM, Naquaii said:

Having originally written the manual I can assure you the webpage version is not 4 years old. I last updated it last year. Afaik it will be updated for out of EA release (in addition to the pdf version) but I’m no longer the editor so can’t speak for when.

2 hours ago, RustBelt said:

Heatblur says no.

 

Maybe work on your reading skills instead of your typing skills... peanut.

[IronMike]

Guys, let us stay civil with each other, all of us please. I cannot reprimand one for saying something and then not reprimand the other.

We're all peanuts fwiw.

[Panny]

Just throwing in my opinion.

I think it can be very easy to state that you want the manual to include lots of tactical aspects or 'how to' parts in it. However I can completely see how that leads to an ever expanding scope where more and more is needed due to the complexity of the module.

I mean, @Karonwhen you started FlyandWire did you anticipate that you'd end up writing your Virtual Backseaters Guide of 600 pages, that builds on the manual?

I've written parts of my own syllabus that takes a different angle and to get everything right is pretty time consuming and you really have to be tight in ensuring you don't end up adding more and more sections - for what you thought may take a couple days balloons into a week.

 

I'm not in a position to comment on HB's working practices etc., and there are things that need to be updated, since when I was learning the module properly I was sent down rabbit holes to see how it functioned in DCS. But I completely understand that the scope of the manual is kept to describing systems rather than how to use it. It'd be a huge and unwieldy thing