investigating AGM65E w/ ATFLIR won't track moving targets/laser

[krad_1337]

The Laser Maverick / AGM-65-E will not track a moving target. The mav will show acquisition of laser if a static point on the ground is target-designated -- maverick symbology switching from 'X' to square. However if the pod is slewed (to fine-tune the laser designation point) or the pod is tracking a moving target, the maverick will go to 'standby' with the symbology going to 'X' and the MAV being crossed in the HUD. 

Steps to reproduce:

Initial state: Ensure ordinance, atflir, and flight parameters are suitable for maverick employment ( can be verified by shooting a maverick at a static target)

Have the MAV display in the left DDI, ATFLIR in the right. Box TRIG in ATFLIR. have a target ahead in the forward view of the maverick seeker.

To Reproduce: Use the ATFLIR to track a moving target (point track). use the trigger to laser designate the target.
Expected: MAV symbology goes from X to square as happens with a static target
Actual: MAV remains showing the 'X' symbology indicating no lock.

Second Reproduce: Designate a static target, use trigger to laser designate the target.. then slew the ATFLIR to fine-tune the designation point.
Expected: MAV goes X to square when laser-designating target, remains with square symbology while ATFLIR is slewed.
Actual: MAV goes X to square when target is laser-designated. When atflir is slightly slewed, MAV goes to 'X' symbology and remains that way for several seconds after the movement/slew of the ATFLIR has stopped.


Anecdotally if the laser is moved while the mav is in flight, to fine-tune a laser designation point, the maverick will widely miss the target (likely due to a lost laser lock)

The reason to carry a maverick vs say a gbu-12 is because its better suited to moving targets then a bomb, but unfortunately due to this bug it makes mavs useless for that case.

TRK: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XrVtQDrMvnNbbYA-my5trwcqOS96W4yi/view?usp=sharing

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

welcome to the forum. 

The track is a little large ( over 100MB) which will make it difficult to debug correctly. 

I will try to reproduce myself but if you have a short track replay example please also attach it 

thank you

[BIGNEWY]

Just tested and all seems ok for me. 

Can you take a look at this mission and try to reproduce. 

if you still have issues please attach the track from this session and we will take a closer look 

Targets at waypoint 1 

thanks

 

agm65e hornet.miz

[krad_1337]

Sorry for the large trackfile, it was a flight where I was practicing convoy attacks with a bunch of different munitions on a popular multiplayer server (hoggit tnn).

I'll give your miz a try tonight and see if it works. If it does work (not broken) I'll try on a multiplayer server and see if its multiplayer specific.

[krad_1337]

Air start does not exhibit the problem. However I added a coldstart to your miz and was able to reproduce with the coldstart. track file attached.

mav-colds.trk

[BIGNEWY]

7 hours ago, krad_1337 said:

Air start does not exhibit the problem. However I added a coldstart to your miz and was able to reproduce with the coldstart. track file attached.

mav-colds.trk 4.88 MB · 1 download

thank you for the track replay, sadly it did not play back correctly for me which can happen with our tracks. 
When I test from cold start it still seems ok for me. Are you remembering to reset the LTDR switch after each engagement? 

[krad_1337]

I attached a screenshot. If I get a chance I'll record a video and put it on youtube. Sorry for the low rez/pixelated. Laser is armed and lazing. in my testing I'd do some passes at the convoys, verify 'X' symbology, and then go designate a ground target, and verify 'square' symbology. Basically ensuring its failing to acquire moving targets (the bug) but acquiring static targets -- while maintaining all other parameters/configuration in-common.

a few notes. your miz file had a lightning pod, I've observed this with the atflir (I dont know if that matters I did not test with a lightning).

I am on current openbeta, single-threaded, VR.

I can try 'autostart' to see if that makes any difference at all.

I figured you'd have my alterations to the 'miz' for cold start w/ the track file I sent but if it didn't load you wouldn't have it. I've attached the altered MIZ directly. main changes are to switch pod from lightning to atflir, switch from 'player' to 'client' (was just seeing if that made a difference, it did not for the hot-start) and to add a coldstart at a nearby airport. 

agm65e hornet.miz

[Tholozor]

Try assigning the TDC to the MAV display, then pickle.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Tholozor

[Harker]

I was able to reproduce in our closed build. The issue is present when the pod is slaved to or driving a moving designation.

The reason the Litening works at first glance is that PTRK does not drive the A/G designation (which it should in all cases) if you've previously used WPDSG to slave the pod to a Waypoint, so that's another bug. Same for the ATFLIR, if you don't first depress the TDC.

OP, thank you for the report, it helped spot two bugs at once!

Edited March 22, 2023 by Harker

[krad_1337]

oh interesting. I may have WPDSG'd the airstart.. commonly I use the AG attack radar in GND mode to find convoy targets and then switch to the ATFLIR. no idea if its related just providing that detail as an extra data point.

[Harker]

oh interesting. I may have WPDSG'd the airstart.. commonly I use the AG attack radar in GND mode to find convoy targets and then switch to the ATFLIR. no idea if its related just providing that detail as an extra data point.

Disregard my second paragraph, this is a separate issue, that causes the Litening to work despite of the present bug.

The problem you brought forward has to do with the fact that, in your example, the ATFLIR is driving (updating the position of) the designation in AUTO, while moving. If the pod is driving, or slaved to the designation, and the designation is moving, the missile can't see the laser.

I've since discovered that missile can see the laser after it's released. So, as a workaround until it's fixed, you can launch towards a stationary designation (so the missile will see the laser, while on the jet) and then track a moving target with the ATFLIR, for example.

[krad_1337]

On 3/22/2023 at 10:23 AM, Harker said:

The reason the Litening works at first glance is that PTRK does not drive the A/G designation (which it should in all cases) if you've previously used WPDSG to slave the pod to a Waypoint, so that's another bug. Same for the ATFLIR, if you don't first depress the TDC.
 

This got me on a mission last week. Not doing the ATFLIR TDC-depress and then waiting some time before dropping GBU-12's resulted in the AUTO HUD cue / drop point calculation to drop the GBU-12's at the WPDSG point. By then a mile plus from the actual moving target point. Result was 2 misses and then eating an SA11. Later testing showed that doing the TDC-depress correctly updates the drop point.

Both these issues already tracked internally at ED? or does there need to be one-forum-topic-per-issue? let me know if its the latter I'll open another topic for it.