reported Gunner Issues - Accuracy and engagement problems

[RafaPolit]

48 minutes ago, NineLine said:

I have a report already about their poor aim, but we are mixing themes here, are you not seeing them shoot or are you not seeing them hit when they are shooting.

Thanks @NineLine.  In my case, they were not shooting at all.  Nor respecting any of the the Reaction to Threat settings.  I could fly in formation with them, no attack.  I shot them, they just kept on going until the plane could no longer fly.  I was spawning almost 80 miles away from the planes and "reaching out" to them.

My comment you quote was due to someone else's comment that tracers could be getting fired, but maybe not seen.  So I mentioned that if they were fired and not seen, then "they must have worst aim than me", because I didn't feel a single hit on me.  It was kind of an "ironic" comment to mention that no, I wasn't shot at all.  Sorry if this caused confusion.

I could test again with the newer versions, haven't returned to that mission as it proved really frustrating to just arrive to the bombers and be able to dance around them without them posing any threat.  Thanks for looking into this.

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

On 5/1/2023 at 9:34 AM, Skewgear said:

Nicely done with the tracks. This is a persistent problem we have with the Project Overlord bomber raids.

 

Skewgear,

Can reverify with this current version if you are still seeing the "no shoot" behavior?  

 

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, [16AGR] CptTrips said:

 

Yes.

 

Here is what I saw.

Tail gunner:  Adequate. Pretty sad for ACE, but you know that already.

Chin gun: same.

Side: Shoots, but couldn't hit water if you threw him out of a boat.  AS you now see.

Belly gun.  I've never seen shoot. You?

 

Top: Out of 50 various runs I saw him shoot once somewhere in the general direction.  All the other times no shoot.

 

 

So how is the best way I can demonstrate them not shooting on my machine for you? 

Apparently we are getting different results.  Again, did they shoot for you on my original top and belly gun miz?  I'm trying to find which one work the same for both of us.  So lets say my mission suck, but there is no rational reason they should shoot in those too miz regardless.

 

I can get some vid recording software if thats best.  I attached a trk earlier I assume you could play and see them not shoot.

 

I'll try your a20 miz real quick before repair and then again after.

 

The AI guy is looking at it, I am not calling you a liar or anything, I am sure something weird is going on. My guess is its something to do with their visibility. I noticed flying farther away gained more shots, hence why your test missions in the other thread didn't do much. Right now its in our devs hands and soon as I know something I will let you all know. 

[NineLine]

On 6/11/2023 at 8:21 PM, Rex said:

Been trying but I cannot get the Third Reich AI can't pull off a 4-man infantry group embark in Normandy 2.  I can do it on other maps / times, so I'm familiar with the process.

I'm trying to get 4 infantry from Colleville to Omaha in a Halftrack, but it always fails, and does so differently each time.  Sometime the soldiers won't get in.  Sometimes they will get in and the Halftrack won't move.  Sometimes they'll stand there and do nothing at all.

Is there a trick to it, or does it just not work?

The log is showing some stuff about corrupt damage models and _flir textures for planes , but I'm not sure if it's related.

 

2023-06-12 03:22:17.508 INFO    APP (Main): MissionSpawn:spawnCoalition blue
2023-06-12 03:22:17.508 INFO    APP (Main): MissionSpawn:spawnPlanes 2
2023-06-12 03:22:17.794 ERROR   APP (Main): Error: Unit [TF-51D]: Corrupt damage model.
2023-06-12 03:22:18.595 INFO    APP (Main): MissionSpawn:spawnVehicles 2
2023-06-12 03:22:18.732 INFO    APP (Main): MissionSpawn:spawnPlanes 80
2023-06-12 03:22:18.733 ERROR   APP (Main): Error: Unit [I-16]: Corrupt damage model.
2023-06-12 03:22:18.848 WARNING LOG (3880): 7 duplicate message(s) skipped.
2023-06-12 03:22:18.848 INFO    APP (Main): MissionSpawn:spawnPlanes 4
2023-06-12 03:22:17.508 WARNING LOG (3880): 2 duplicate message(s) skipped.
2023-06-12 03:22:17.508 INFO    APP (Main): MissionSpawn:spawnCoalition blue
2023-06-12 03:22:17.508 INFO    APP (Main): MissionSpawn:spawnPlanes 2
2023-06-12 03:22:17.794 ERROR   APP (Main): Error: Unit [TF-51D]: Corrupt damage model.
2023-06-12 03:22:18.595 INFO    APP (Main): MissionSpawn:spawnVehicles 2
2023-06-12 03:22:18.732 INFO    APP (Main): MissionSpawn:spawnPlanes 80
2023-06-12 03:22:18.733 ERROR   APP (Main): Error: Unit [I-16]: Corrupt damage model.
2023-06-12 03:22:18.848 WARNING LOG (3880): 7 duplicate message(s) skipped.
2023-06-12 03:22:18.848 INFO    APP (Main): MissionSpawn:spawnPlanes 4
2023-06-12 03:22:19.832 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (20484): texture 'Bf-109K-4_DIF_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:19.836 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (18320): texture 'FW-190_02_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:19.843 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (18320): texture 'Fw190_Fuselage_D_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:19.855 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (20484): texture 'Junkers_88_Vint_D_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:19.861 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (18320): texture 'B_17G_ROTOR_D_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:19.874 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (20484): texture 'A-20G_Dif_Wings' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:19.874 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (20484): texture 'A-20G_Dif_Wings_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:19.880 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (20012): texture 'C-47_Vint_D_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:19.893 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (18320): texture 'p51D_DIF_Fuz_Front_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:19.919 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (14332): texture 'P47D_Fuz_Front_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:19.934 INFO    EDTERRAINGRAPHICS41 (17672):     surface5 gc() LOD 0 4 squares
2023-06-12 03:22:19.934 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (14932): texture 'map_2_i16_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:19.934 INFO    EDTERRAINGRAPHICS41 (17672):     surface5 gc() LOD 1 4 squares
2023-06-12 03:22:19.935 INFO    EDTERRAINGRAPHICS41 (17672):     surface5 gc() LOD 2 38 squares
2023-06-12 03:22:19.936 INFO    EDTERRAINGRAPHICS41 (17672):     surface5 gc() LOD 3 78 squares
2023-06-12 03:22:19.936 INFO    EDTERRAINGRAPHICS41 (17672): surface5 gc() 2.369100 ms
2023-06-12 03:22:19.945 INFO    TACVIEW.EXPORT.LUA (Main): Loading C++ flight data recorder from [C:\Users\Rex\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Mods\tech\Tacview\bin\]
2023-06-12 03:22:19.945 INFO    TACVIEW.EXPORT.LUA (Main): Tacview 1.9.0.102 C++ flight data recorder successfully loaded.
2023-06-12 03:22:19.956 WARNING FLIGHT (Main): NO ATC COMM Saint Pierre du Mont:4050000:39050000:118600000:250600000
2023-06-12 03:22:19.990 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (20012): texture 'Mosquito_blade_D_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:20.026 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (20012): texture 'SpitfireIX_DIF_flir' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:20.124 INFO    VISUALIZER (Main): Preload() radius: 150000.000000
2023-06-12 03:22:20.124 INFO    EDTERRAINGRAPHICS41 (Main): ITerrainGraphicsImpl4::forceLoading(): pos=(-109687, 144.415, 49103.1), radius=150000
2023-06-12 03:22:20.301 INFO    EDTERRAINGRAPHICS41 (17672): surface5 clean up LOD 0: left 0  released 26
2023-06-12 03:22:20.303 INFO    EDTERRAINGRAPHICS41 (17672): surface5 clean up LOD 1: left 0  released 80
2023-06-12 03:22:20.303 INFO    EDTERRAINGRAPHICS41 (17672): surface5 clean up 3.209500 ms
2023-06-12 03:22:21.211 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (20012): texture 'lights_bano' not found. Asked from ''
2023-06-12 03:22:26.319 INFO    VISUALIZER (Main): Preload() finished
2023-06-12 03:22:26.329 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): Tacview Flight Data Recorder 1.9.0.102 Loaded.
2023-06-12 03:22:26.329 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): Config={tacviewModuleEnabled=1, tacviewFlightDataRecordingEnabled=1, tacviewSinglePlayerFlights=2, tacviewMultiplayerFlightsAsClient=2, tacviewMultiplayerFlightsAsHost=2, tacviewBookmarkShortcut=1, tacviewAutoDiscardFlights=60, tacviewDebugMode=0, tacviewTerrainExport=0, tacviewRealTimeTelemetryEnabled=1, tacviewRealTimeTelemetryPort=42674, tacviewRealTimeTelemetryPassword="", tacviewRemoteControlEnabled=1, tacviewRemoteControlPort=42675, tacviewRemoteControlPassword="", tacviewExportPath=""}
2023-06-12 03:22:26.329 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): Running in single player mode.
2023-06-12 03:22:26.329 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): Tacview is set to [Record All Available Data]
2023-06-12 03:22:26.329 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): Export path: [C:\Users\Rex\Documents\Tacview\]
2023-06-12 03:22:26.436 INFO    Dispatcher (Main): precache units resources in slots
2023-06-12 03:22:26.438 INFO    LUA (Main): Lua CPU usage: metric: average mission loading: 2.3977 %
2023-06-12 03:22:26.438 INFO    EDCORE (Main): Create game pool.
2023-06-12 03:22:26.439 INFO    Dispatcher (Main): loadMission Done: Сontrol passed to the player
2023-06-12 03:22:31.089 INFO    LUA (Main): Lua CPU usage: metric: average mission execution: 0.0000 %
2023-06-12 03:22:33.197 INFO    APP (Main): MissionSpawn:spawnLocalPlayer instructor_red_1,instructor
2023-06-12 03:22:33.408 INFO    LUA (Main): Lua CPU usage: metric: average mission execution: 4.1934 %
2023-06-12 03:22:33.414 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): Recording flight data in [C:\Users\Rex\Documents\Tacview\Tacview-20230611-202233-DCS-Battle_of_Britain-SANDBOX.zip.acmi]
2023-06-12 03:22:34.855 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): Export rights granted by the host: PlayerPlane=[1] PlayerSensors=[1] OtherObjects=[1]
2023-06-12 03:22:34.860 WARNING WORLD (Main): ModelTimeQuantizer: ANTIFREEZE ENABLED
2023-06-12 03:22:34.863 WARNING WORLD (Main): ModelTimeQuantizer: SAME MODEL TIME

 

 

 

 

Please include your mission so we can see what might be going on. Thanks. 

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

OK.  I did the repair and didn't see any difference. 

 

You asked me earlier to try one flying instead of AI.  This is one I was trying to repro what RasaPilot saw.

Take a look at this track.  Seems to demo what he said.

Yeah, my flying sucks.  Sue me.  I haven't flow a fixed wing in 3 years.  and never with track IR before.

 

TripsA20.trk

 

EDIT: THat is so weird.  I'm seeing some squirts in that trk I never saw flying.  He certainly never hit me I don't think.

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by [16AGR] CptTrips

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

@RafaPolit are you running MT?

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

You asked me earlier to do a flying test manually.  @NineLine

Please review what I see from my view (note timestamps in description to jump to approaches.)

 

All those passes and the debrief said the belly gunner never fired.

(Attached log, trk, bebrief)

Anyway here is something similar for the A20 top gun position.  At timestamp 3:40 he briefly shoots, but the rest of the time refuses.

 

Anyway, posting both because I think they are related.  Something in the gunner targeting logic.

 

TripsB17.zip

Edited June 29, 2023 by [16AGR] CptTrips

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

@NineLine

I think you should review this thread as well. I think we are all seeing the same thing and I suspect the ridiculous aim and the not shooting at all are related.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by [16AGR] CptTrips

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

@RafaPolit  This guy videos something very close to what you were describing.  Would you agree?

 

 

[NineLine]

Merged 3 threads, we are looking at all this now. Closed for now.