Hangar bay

[toni]

Like the PriFly + Briefing station in progress, can you think about  Hangar development at a later stage ?  I know is not a pure main item for flight ops but given that maintenance is fundamental for ALL  air platforms , would add a lot of inmersion , also  dynamic 4 elevators on demand  and a tow vehicle accessible via comm menu.

What do you tell me  ED ?

[draconus]

Sounds like ground crew sim addon because pilots have no business down there.

From the FAQ:

Quote

Will the hangar be included?

Yes, and modeling is already underway. However, given that pilots never get into or out of their aircraft in the hangars, this is a lower priority and is scheduled for a later date.

Quote

What are the items planned for after Early Access release?

...

• Rendered hangar deck

...

Edited May 11, 2023 by draconus

[toni]

Brilliant !  Command bridge at some point ?

[Micr0]

It isn't common, but there are times when a post maintenance check flight needs to get done and maintenance is running behind. In those cases, pilots have been known to man up, get ready while mx finishes up in the hangar and then ride the elevator to the deck to get going ASAP. Again, not common, but it happens.

[draconus]

14 hours ago, toni said:

Command bridge at some point ?

Air Boss Station / Prifly is planned.

[Jackjack171]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:22 AM, Micr0 said:

It isn't common, but there are times when a post maintenance check flight needs to get done and maintenance is running behind. In those cases, pilots have been known to man up, get ready while mx finishes up in the hangar and then ride the elevator to the deck to get going ASAP. Again, not common, but it happens.

Who told you that pilots do this? Riding the elevator IRL is prohibited and needs higher permissions. Pilots transit the hangar for several reasons, and it is not for the purpose of manning, nor going to the flight deck to man the aircraft. The paralofts are all on the 03 level so there's no need for them to go several decks below in all that gear just to go back up. NO ONE without express permission is allowed to ride the elevators underway! It is a safety issue. The amount of ignorance on this issue is absurd! Add to it, the number of those cosigning on it! 

[Micr0]

Hi, Jack.

Thank you for the reply. You clearly have a lot of passion about this issue. Please allow me to apologize to you for my absurd ignorance. To answer you question though: My CO told me pilots do it - when he had me go down to the hangar bay in 1999 to manup before flying a maintenance profile. I then rode up the elevator to the flight deck in my jet. As you can see in the video below (scroll to 8:50), it was not common, but did happen. But again, I thank you for the information, tactfulness, and setting me straight. Regards.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Micr0

[Jackjack171]

On 8/14/2023 at 12:09 AM, Micr0 said:

Hi, Jack.

Thank you for the reply. You clearly have a lot of passion about this issue. Please allow me to apologize to you for my absurd ignorance. To answer you question though: My CO told me pilots do it - when he had me go down to the hangar bay in 1999 to manup before flying a maintenance profile. I then rode up the elevator to the flight deck in my jet. As you can see in the video below (scroll to 8:50), it was not common, but did happen. But again, I thank you for the information, tactfulness, and setting me straight. Regards.

 

 

 

Cool. You must've gotten that express permission that I was talking about. Usually, us Aircraft Handlers have to wait until we can put the safety lines up, much less, raise or lower. God forbid riders! Maybe the reserves got lucky that day (in the video). Riding the elevator has many associated hazards when it is lowered. People and equipment have been swept away. There's lots of unseen with this video. I've seen this video and it's not from 1999. I give it, mid to late 80's. There's A-7's and A-6's and the birds (Tomcats) are in low holding overhead a Forrestal class ship. I'm assuming the person in the cockpit riding the elevator is from way back in the day, as is this video! The pilots and aircraft appear to be from VF-301, disestablished in 1994. Before we invented safety, maybe it was a thing. Top Gun and Hollywood have people thinking it's the norm. There are family day participants that have more rides than I do (former Flight Deck Chief) as that's the time it's most reserved for people. 

You're welcome and BTW, I lost my tact 25 years ago. I think it's still on the ship. Just giving it to you straight!

[F1GHTS-ON]

way, way back (when presumably Noah was still just thinking of going to sea and flight safety was still in it's infancy!) didn't the A-4s on the "special" alert occasionally get the "shape" fitted whilst in the hangers and then (with pilot strapped in) ride the elevator to the flight deck? 

Wiki Broken Arrow incident

Link is to a 1965 incident where sadly a A-4 + pilot (never recovered) went over the side whilst be pushed onto the elevator (presumably with the intention of riding it up to the flight deck?). So clearly it used to happen, but at some point in last quarter of a century, removed from the list of "accepted practices" (as @Jackjack171 suggests). I think that the UK Invincible Carriers deliberately had the bomb lifts pass (with an option to stop) at the Sick Bay, yet for health & safety reasons (can't fight a war without a good Health & Safety enforced policy, otherwise, god forbid, someone might get hurt), was never used - something to do with removal of any unsecured limbs on lift travel.

Good discussion, and regardless of realism (that statement likely to get me shot on these forums  ) to create that "immersive" experience, I would welcome option of riding the lift in game. Of course, a radio menu option for "push back" MUST be the the most desired Super Carrier request.........

 

[Jackjack171]

On 8/27/2023 at 6:06 AM, F1GHTS-ON said:

way, way back (when presumably Noah was still just thinking of going to sea and flight safety was still in it's infancy!) didn't the A-4s on the "special" alert occasionally get the "shape" fitted whilst in the hangers and then (with pilot strapped in) ride the elevator to the flight deck? 

Wiki Broken Arrow incident

Link is to a 1965 incident where sadly a A-4 + pilot (never recovered) went over the side whilst be pushed onto the elevator (presumably with the intention of riding it up to the flight deck?). So clearly it used to happen, but at some point in last quarter of a century, removed from the list of "accepted practices" (as @Jackjack171 suggests). I think that the UK Invincible Carriers deliberately had the bomb lifts pass (with an option to stop) at the Sick Bay, yet for health & safety reasons (can't fight a war without a good Health & Safety enforced policy, otherwise, god forbid, someone might get hurt), was never used - something to do with removal of any unsecured limbs on lift travel.

Good discussion, and regardless of realism (that statement likely to get me shot on these forums  ) to create that "immersive" experience, I would welcome option of riding the lift in game. Of course, a radio menu option for "push back" MUST be the the most desired Super Carrier request.........

 

Good points all around. Here's the thing about realism and why I responded with corrections. Some users hoot and holler about realism all day long, until it hits them in the face! This weapon or that system, the developers give it to us and some of us still complain. I came from the days of wishing DCS existed (FS98, Janes, etc.) And now it does! Why bother using resources on a thing that is not even a real or practical thing? IMHO, I'd rather see a more robust and animated Flight Deck crew. More parking and start positions. Better ATC around the boat (and ashore), more LSO/CATCC interaction, De-Arm after landing and arming on the CAT. Cyclic OPS would be nice! Recovery/mission Tankers and the TTLR (Turning Tanker, Last recovery). Even having a working barricade would be great. What is not needed IMO is a ready room (next users will ask for the paraloft) unless we are talking about planning from start to finish to coincide with an on-time recovery within a legit recovery cycle (no coming back when you feel like it, you need to be on-schedule). The AIR BOSS station would be good except, the only thing to get out of that would be turning on the deck lights and the Lens and such. The AIR BOSS is responsible for aircraft coordination and control up to 5 NM around the boat. All aircraft moves on deck are coordinated from Flight Deck control via the Handler (Aircraft handling Officer) btw! All of which should and could be done automatically (in DCS) if cyclic ops are done the way it should/could. Push back is definitely something that is needed. Last but not least, there are certain ordnance loads that cannot launch from CAT's 3 and 4. Some will strike the launch bubble adjacent to CAT 4 (Go-no-go restrictions). There are even restrictions on when a prop (E-2/C-2) can launch and recover when hot jet exhaust is in the vicinity. I cannot have a hot 4 row (CAT 2) and recover or launch a prop. The engines will flame out due to hot jet exhaust ingestion. 

What caught my attention was the assumption that pilots hang out in the hangar bay. Anyone that knows, knows that there's not much down there to look at, much less move around. Aircraft do not get armed in the bay, nor do they start engines and ride up to the deck, despite what's shown in entertainment. Pilots and aircrew often may be seen in the hangar for training on certain weapons or practice loading evolutions or Pilates classes, but the hangar is for AIRCRAFT UNDERGOING MAINTENANCE! GO birds are kept topside. If a bird goes HARD DOWN, it will be sent to the bay at the earliest convenience as to make room on deck! We have a specific pecking order for how and when things move down there. Most aircraft moves (swaps) happen at night, after Flight quarters has ceased. There are some moves before that but not a lot and only on a case by case (as needed) situation. At night, aircraft are respotted for the next day. Think minimal movement of elevators, (which are real estate during flight ops) and ships movement. Launch and recovery onboard an aircraft carrier is a beautiful and dangerous evolution (I love it) and if it is going to be done, it should be done as right possible! Anything else and we should just call it, Ace DCS (which I tried, once upon a time and it made me nauseous). This is not a diss in case one likes that kind of thing. But IRT realism...

I don't know what ED's plan for this is. I'm here for it regardless (can't help myself) but I feel it is my duty to tell the truth about it. Also, I realize DCS is just a game, however, are we aiming for as real as possible or just some puffy arcade mumbo jumbo like the aforementioned?

JJ171

[RaisedByWolves]

At 10:21, is that Casey Kasem?

[toni]

Yessss hell, give us control over the hangar doors and lifters