How to avoid masking TGP when anchoring

[Wyverex]

I've recently started playing the amazing The Enemy Within 3.0 campaign and I keep running into the same issue, over and over. I anchor over a target area using ALT Hold to search for targets and half of the time I spend looking at a masked TGP. So I disengage hold mode and start maneuvering to keep the targets in sight. Sooner or later that makes me oscillate wildly while being heads down dealing with the TGP.

The worst part is when trying to track moving targets, like three trucks that I have to destroy before they reach a target. They are hard to spot anyway (especially in VR) and I constantly lose sight of them while my TGP is masked. This is extremely stressful. I waste so much time searching for them again after the TGP is unmasked. 

This gets even harder in the mountaineous areas in the campaign where I have to watch out not to fly into the mountains and on top of that I regularly mask targets simply by having a mountain or trees in between.

At this point I'm sure I'm doing something fundamentally wrong. Keeping your targets in sight is surely a basic skill that everything else builds upon. What are your techniques to ensure you minimize TGP masking time (I doubt you can prevent it entirely, especially during bombing runs since you have to reverse at some point).

For example, is there a sweet spot for both the bank angle and distance to target area while anchoring?

[jaylw314]

Looking at a point you're orbiting requires lowering the inside wing, risking masked TGP.  If you increase altitude, decrease the orbit radius or decrease your airspeed, that reduces the risk of masking (in decreasing order of importance).

FWIW in POINT/AREA track mode, the video tracker has an even smaller FOV than the camera itself, so you'll lose video track even while you can still see the target near the edges.  In POINT track, if you're following a moving vehicle, it will change to P-INR mode, and the camera will continue to move in the direction and speed of the last tracked target, so if it's a straight road, you may very well pick up the vehicle again after unmasking the TGP.  Doesn't help much on a twisty road, though

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by jaylw314

[ASAP]

How close/far are you holding from the target and what altitude are you at? The closer and lower you are the more you're going to have to bank it up to stay over the top of the target which means you are going to mask more. Most the time I've heard people complain about this it is because they are setting themselves up for failure with how they are holding.

Also make sure you are in a right hand wheel because that's the side your targeting pod is on.

Edited May 17, 2023 by ASAP

[Yurgon]

21 minutes ago, Wyverex said:

For example, is there a sweet spot for both the bank angle and distance to target area while anchoring?

That's going to be a multi-layered answer.

First of all, try to orbit to the side that the TGP is hanging. So with the TGP on station 2 (left wing), try to do left hand orbits (target roughly at your 9 o'clock), and with the TGP on station 10 (right wing), try to fly right hand orbits (target roughly at your 3 o'clock). This doesn't avoid masking, but it makes sure that the jet's fuselage isn't adding to it.

In TEW 3.0, you're supposed to keep the loadout that was prepared for the jet. In other situations, when you have a say in it, try to keep the station outside of the TGP clear. Unless you absolutely need both a jammer pod and one or two Sidewinders, omit one of these and put the other one on the opposite wing. Both the jammer and the Sidewinder cause massive TGP masking when they're hanging next to the TGP.

Like Jay already says, the altitude of your orbit plays a massive role. There is definitely a sweet spot for bank angle and distance where you get little to no masking - but the altitude plays a big role. I don't know some good values off the top of my head; experiment a bit with it and maybe try to come up with a combination (or several) that consistently works for you, like 5 miles from the target at 10,000 ft at circa 10° angle of bank (just as a possible starting point).

BUT! With all these technical aspects out of the way, look out the window. Seriously. Try to spend no more than 50% of your time heads down, and aim for much less than that. The best way to build and maintain situational awareness is to look out the window and build a mental picture of the situation on the ground.

The A-10C II has some fantastic tools to help you. Make good use of them. When you already know the TGP is going to get masked because you're operating in a tight valley and the low hanging clouds are going to obscure the targets, and you can't get below the clouds because then there's even less room to maneuver... keep dropping mark points near the target. With the TGP as SOI, when you have the target in the TGP, just hit TMS Right Short to drop a mark point.

Now here comes the really, really cool feature that was added with the A-10C II module: Hit TMS Right Long and the last mark point is going to be your SPI. TGP got masked? No worries, fly the jet, get unmasked, and since the TGP is going to get tangled up anyway at some point, just go ahead and boresight it every now and then with OSB 5 (B/S [150]), then hit Slave All to SPI (China Hat Forward Long) and the TGP is going to be looking right at your last mark point. From there it should be easy enough to pick up the target(s) again.

Or: look out the window. If you spot the target, or you recognize the general area where you know for sure the target has to be there, put the HMCS crosshairs in that area, hit DMS Right Long to put the TGP right on the HMCS crosshairs and then refine your targeting in the TGP.

All that said, the A-10C has absolutely amazing features, but all that takes time and practice to learn. I love TEW 3.0 and am just re-flying and enjoying the heck out of it. But it's not the easiest campaign out there. Your switchology-foo better be good to begin with, because Baltic Dragon just loves to throw players a curve ball and put targets in tiny valleys or have them speed along roads in the narrow mountain ranges in northern Georgia (to name just a few of the ways he likes to torture players).

[jaylw314]

11 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

switchology-foo

LOL 

[Wyverex]

Thanks guys! There's some very helpful stuff in here.

I'm already banking towards the TGP and I've noticed that the sidewinders you sometimes get in the mission exacerbate the problem.

I think my main problem is that I'm too low and too close. There's always a sense of urgency after a dive and coming back up again that probably causes me to not separate far and high enough to set myself up for success on the next run.

 

52 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

With all these technical aspects out of the way, look out the window. Seriously. Try to spend no more than 50% of your time heads down, and aim for much less than that.

I'd love to do that more. Unfortunately, with limited resolution in VR, looking out the window doesn't give you much in terms of SA when it comes to ground targets. Even when diving in, I only see targets very late. So I'm actually very dependent on having a good TGP fix and then diving towards the SPI marker to get on target. I hope that changes when upgrading from my Index to a Crystal later this year.

The HMCS and and TMS right long have actually been a life saver for me, I couldn't live without that anymore.

But I haven't really used Mark points a lot yet. Should probably start to as they sound really useful if employed like you describe.

I think I'll have to load up a practice mission and just try to keep a target in sight for as long as possible to get a better feel for what I'm doing.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Wyverex said:

Thanks guys! There's some very helpful stuff in here.

I'm already banking towards the TGP and I've noticed that the sidewinders you sometimes get in the mission exacerbate the problem.

I think my main problem is that I'm too low and too close. There's always a sense of urgency after a dive and coming back up again that probably causes me to not separate far and high enough to set myself up for success on the next run.

 

I'd love to do that more. Unfortunately, with limited resolution in VR, looking out the window doesn't give you much in terms of SA when it comes to ground targets. Even when diving in, I only see targets very late. So I'm actually very dependent on having a good TGP fix and then diving towards the SPI marker to get on target. I hope that changes when upgrading from my Index to a Crystal later this year.

 

The HMCS and and TMS right long have actually been a life saver for me, I couldn't live without that anymore.

But I haven't really used Mark points a lot yet. Should probably start to as they sound really useful if employed like you describe.

I think I'll have to load up a practice mission and just try to keep a target in sight for as long as possible to get a better feel for what I'm doing.

In VR, I have one word for you -- 'shadows'

Unless the time of day is wrong, you can see vehicle shadows easier than any other cue, and you can scan a larger area with your Mk 1 eyeballs faster than the TGP.   Especially with the spyglass zoom function, you can systematically clear out a sector by visually scanning it much faster than the TGP.  And if you get shot at, you'll be able to see far quicker if your head is already out of the cockpit, and if you're fast enough you can drop markpoints on the shooters for future reference.

[Yurgon]

2 hours ago, Wyverex said:

Unfortunately, with limited resolution in VR, looking out the window doesn't give you much in terms of SA when it comes to ground targets. Even when diving in, I only see targets very late. So I'm actually very dependent on having a good TGP fix and then diving towards the SPI marker to get on target. I hope that changes when upgrading from my Index to a Crystal later this year.

Yeah, I hear the early generations of VR headsets had suboptimal resolution. I'm still on 2D, and the upside is that target spotting remains relatively easy on the flat screen. Keeping my fingers crossed that your upgrade improves the situation.

2 hours ago, Wyverex said:

I think I'll have to load up a practice mission and just try to keep a target in sight for as long as possible to get a better feel for what I'm doing.

Yeah, doing some practice runs without the urgency of a mission or the adrenaline rush of being shot at should help.

There are training missions on most maps under the INSTANT ACTION main menu item.

Another thing I wholeheartedly recommend is getting to know the Mission Editor. For starters, it's quite enough to drop an A-10C II, set skill to player, give it a few waypoints, and also drop a hostile target or two to practice with. The more you learn about the ME, the faster you can set up training scenarios of varying complexity, and dip your toes into mission building if you're interested in that.

19 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Unless the time of day is wrong, you can see vehicle shadows easier than any other cue

Cool! In 2D, I don't think that's as easy, or at least I've never noticed. But if it works well in 3D, that sounds really cool.

[jaylw314]

3 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

Cool! In 2D, I don't think that's as easy, or at least I've never noticed. But if it works well in 3D, that sounds really cool.

LOL, I suspect it's a bug, but I think the shadows are rendered slightly differently in each eye, so it often sticks out from the terrain more so than in flat screen

[King39]

EXCELLENT explanation, Yurgon. As always.

John

[=52d= Skip]

12 hours ago, Wyverex said:

For example, is there a sweet spot for both the bank angle and distance to target area while anchoring?

Try 25000 ft, 210 kts, 6.2-6.5 SR and 15° AOB as a starting point. If your marker wanders off you may have to tighten/ loosen your turn a little and you also may get a masked indication here and then, but you´ll keep an eye on the target all day long.

[Yurgon]

7 hours ago, =52d= Skip said:

Try 25000 ft

Sorry, wrong forum. This is about the A-10.