not planned MiG-25 (Foxbat) in DCS ?

[SharkWizard]

Didn't notice if it had already been mentioned in this thread. But during Enigmas interview with Overstratos from Razbam he mentioned that the MiG-25PD has basically the same weapons control system as the MiG-23MLA they are modelling for DCS currently. 
From that you could possibly deduce the implication that it's not completely beyond Razbam to model the PD for DCS.

[Iron_Man]

As long as the Foxbat is not as simplistic in its FM, as MiG-19, Razbam can do fantastic job. We just need to join our efforts and show how many people are interested and would like to battle Phantoms and Mirages over Sinai. 

[Logan54]

If Razbam will interested the 25PD/RB, it would a great chance for 25`th fans. But for this need to have some dialog with Raz and show them how many ppl really interested in this aircraft in DCS. I asked developers about voting about MiG-25 (is it popular for ED users) But seems to me no voting yet.

[Iron_Man]

Yes please, we need a poll here pinned in the thread. I’m sure a lot of people will vote yes to support this super fast mighty jet plane. It will be the first jet in DCS capable of Mach 2.83 and flying above 20km high. Out of all DCS modules, I’d get it right away. Would be cool to get away unpunished from the Phantoms and Mirages over Sinai, and in general, dropping bombs and intercept at high altitudes. The Sinai map is big enough for that. 

Just look at these insanely powerful engines! 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Iron_Man

[Logan54]

According this information, using MiG-25 in DCS will be absolutely unique and interesting.

MiG-25PD (ed. "84D") (1978) — interceptor fighter. A Sapphire-25 radar with an AVM-25 calculator is installed, capable of detecting targets with an EPR of more than 10 m2 at a distance of 100 km, automatically accompany them at a range of 75 km, accompany up to 6 targets "on the pass" with a viewing angle in the horizontal plane of +/-56 degrees and in the vertical plane of 6 degrees, having improved capabilities for detecting targets on the ground background. A 26SH-1 heat direction finder is installed under the nose of the fuselage. The launch range of the air-to-air missiles upgraded in 1975, which received the designations R-40RD and R-40TD, has increased. Also included in the armament are short-range missiles R-60 (later R-60M), which in the amount of 4 pieces can be hung under external pylons instead of 2 R-40TD missiles using special twin guides. The normal take—off weight increased to 34920 kg, and the maximum - to 36720 kg. On the new aircraft , it was possible to hang a PTB with a capacity of 5,300 liters . The flight range with supersonic speed (M = 2.35), without PTB, with 4 P-40 was 1250 km; with subsonic speed — 1730 km . With the use of PTB , the range increased to 2,400 km . The aircraft reached an altitude of 19,000 m in 6.6 minutes, and its practical ceiling was 20,200 meters. MiG-25PD fighters were externally distinguished by an elongated nose covering the radar equipment. The new aircraft received upgraded R15BD-300 engines with a resource increased to 1000 hours, providing a drive for more powerful three-phase current generators. They were mass-produced in Gorky (Nizhny Novgorod).
MiG-25PDS (1978) — a modified interceptor fighter with the replacement of the Smerch radar (RP-25) with the Sapphire-25 (S-25), the R15B-300 engine with the R15BD-300, parts of other equipment, as well as the use of R-40DR missiles/DT and R-60. According to the type of MiG-25PDS, previously released MiG-25P aircraft were refined.
The MiG-25PDSL (1985) is a modified interceptor fighter equipped with a Beryoza—LM radiation warning station, a Gardenia-1FU active interference station (in a suspended container) and passive interference shooting devices. According to the MiG-25PDSL type, the previously released MiG-25PDS aircraft was being finalized. The modification was not mass-produced.

MiG-25 BM (1983) — air defense breakthrough aircraft. In total, less than 40 units were produced. The main armament is 4 X—58 missiles with a passive radar head of four sub-bands and a target detection station "Sych-M". It could carry missiles with a low-power YABCH. After striking the enemy radar from the stratosphere, conditions were provided for the actions of other types of aviation to an operational depth (up to 500 km from the front line).

MiG-25RB (ed."02B") (1970) is a single—seat high—altitude operational reconnaissance aircraft - bomber. Photographic equipment of the MiG-25R type, SRS-4A radio intelligence station. The maximum mass of the bomb load is 4000 kg (4-8 FOTAB—100-80, 8 FAB-500M-62). For automatic bombing at specified coordinates, the navigation system "Peleng-D" was used (in subsequent modifications — "Peleng-DM"). Carrier of nuclear weapons. They were built serially for two years. In 1972, four vehicles were tested in real combat conditions of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

The procedure for preparing and performing bombing on the MiG-25RB consisted of the following sequence of operations:

- Before departure, the aircraft was installed on a geodesically equipped parking lot with two or three landmarks at a distance of at least 2 km, the coordinates of which were known
- The scout was being prepared for departure by specialists in all specialties: fuel was being refueled, a program was being introduced in the CVM
- Bombs were suspended
- At the end of refueling and suspension, with the help of a geodetic instrument (theodolite), the geographical coordinates of the aircraft parking place and the parking course of the aircraft were determined with an accuracy of 3 °. The received data were entered into the digital computer
- The pilot was obliged to start the engines as soon as possible, taxi to the start, the flight director had to give the aircraft a "green" street so that errors in determining the coordinates of the aircraft by the inertial system would not accumulate
- After takeoff, the plane went to the specified route. When approaching the target, but no closer than 120 km from it, the correction of the coordinates of the aircraft's location from the radio navigation system was disabled.
- At a distance of 90 km from the target, the command "Turn on the weapons" came from the speech informant from the Central computer and the scoreboard with a similar inscription began to flash.
- The pilot turned on the necessary equipment and controlled the position of the aircraft on the combat course
- At a range of 40 ± 2 km (depending on altitude and flight speed), the pilot received the command "Drop (bombs)". At the same time, the bombs began to be automatically dropped, but the pilot had to duplicate the reset by pressing the combat button.
- The return to your own or one of the three replacement airfields programmed on the ground could be made in automatic or manual mode.

The technological preparation time of one aircraft for re-departure was 1 hour 20 minutes, and the squadron 7 hours 30 minutes.
The first bombing was successful. The regiment received a rating of 4.3.
For aerial photography or radar reconnaissance, small deviations along the course did not have a big impact, but when flying bombing, high accuracy of aiming the aircraft at the target is necessary. The main method of bombing with the MiG-25RB was navigation bombing. After all, there was not even a bomber or rifle scope on the plane. The standards of such bombing with the use of the "Peleng-DM" system are: an excellent rating at a deviation from the target of 800 m, a good rating at a deviation from the target of 1600 m, an assessment of "satisfactory" at a deviation from the target of 2400 m. For aircraft equipped with the Peleng-2 system (MiG-25RBSH, RBF, RBT) and Peleng-2M (MiG-25RBM), the standards were 400,800 and 1,200 m, respectively.
It should be noted that the errors in range and course during bombing had different values and for the "Peleng-DM" system were ± 820 m in range and ± 1750 m in course. Taking into account the standards and capabilities of the "Peleng-DM" system, the bombing of the regiment was almost always performed with good and excellent ratings. For bombing, such deviations were very large and the results of such an application from a military point of view were very modest. It is possible that during the global war (for which they were preparing at that time) this disadvantage was supposed to be compensated by the use of nuclear bombs.
It is necessary to pay tribute to the industry – with the advent of the Peleng-2 system, it became possible, using the correction in front of the target from the long-range navigation radio system, to reduce the deviation to ± 20 m. However, such accuracy could be achieved in the absence of radio interference from the enemy.
The Peleng-2 system had another advantage, contributing to an increase in combat readiness. One day, during bombing flights to the Shchuchin airfield, where 10 orap was based, fog descended. This could disrupt the flight to the test site, because when preparing the aircraft's navigation system for departure for bombing, it is necessary to determine the parking course with the help of a theodolite according to a landmark remote at a distance of at least 2 km.
The flight would have been disrupted if there were no planes with the "Peleng-2" system. In the presence of this system, the coordinates of the runway were laid in the CVM, and the aircraft finished training already at the start. The results of using this method exceeded all expectations, and the task was completed.

One of the most typical operations with the use of MiG-25RB was the bombing of the Iranian island of Kharq. On this island, located near the southern borders of Iraq, the Iranian side has placed oil storage tanks (tanks about 124 m in diameter), each protected by collapse and oil terminals for transferring oil to tankers. Khark Island with dimensions of 1x2.5 km was the optimal target for the guidance system of the MiG-25RB aircraft, the errors of which were ± 820 m from the target in the direction of flight and ± 1750 m laterally.
Flights to this island were supposed to be made from the Nasiriya air base. Three MiG-25RB aircraft with tail numbers 140, 141 and 120 were being prepared for flights. Soviet advisers specially summoned to the airbase compiled a list of equipment settings that needed to be performed on the aircraft. All work was carried out by Iraqi officers under the supervision of advisers. To defeat the oil storage facilities, the Iraqi side allocated three sorties.

The first flight was made by aircraft No. 140 with four FAB-500AT bombs. The principle of Iraqis photographing the results of bombing attacks helped here. The photos showed that all four bombs with a small spread hit the terminals with a flight of about 1 km and a deviation to the left of 800-1000 m. This was indicated by clouds of smoke from burning oil. Specialists corrected the data in the computer, and the second bombing was carried out with a slight shortfall. At the same time, the bombs hit a tanker standing near the coastline. After making adjustments again, they carried out the third sortie, in which they hit the oil storage facilities with three bombs. This operation aroused the admiration of the Iraqis, once again confirming the high combat capabilities of the MiG-25RB. However, despite the obvious facts, even the Iraqi chiefs said that the Russian khabirs (specialists) would come to the airbase to tweak something - the planes bomb normally. And after they leave the base, all the equipment settings are returned back. The seemingly unsolvable riddle had a very simple answer. Without the control of Soviet specialists, the adjustment work was carried out not by officers, but by non-commissioned officers and soldiers of the Iraqi Air Force, from whom it was very difficult to demand high-quality work.
The entire history of the combat use of the MiG-25RB in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and the North Caucasus, undoubtedly proved one thing - the reconnaissance bomber and its modifications are the only aircraft in the world with unique capabilities that have not been fully disclosed.

source:  МиГ-25 | это... Что такое МиГ-25? (academic.ru)  Самолет-разведчик МиГ-25РБ (airforce.ru)

Edited September 22, 2023 by Logan54

[Mike Force Team]

Mike Force Team wants the mig-25 as a full-fidelty module. 

[SOLIDKREATE]

The MiG-25 is my favorite Soviet Era plane. That and the 23.

[Silver_Dragon]

Just now, SOLIDKREATE said:

The MiG-25 is my favorite Soviet Era plane. That and the 23.

Mig-23MLA has building by RAZBAM.

[SOLIDKREATE]

This is what I will listen to when I cold start this bad boy.

 

[upyr1]

4 hours ago, SOLIDKREATE said:

This is what I will listen to when I cold start this bad boy.

 

Thanks, for posting. 

Not planned- does anyone think we could get Bulgarian manuals? 

[Logan54]

Not remember, if I post this before: Техническое описание Миг-25 : : Новости (scalemodels.ru)

Should be helpfull for devs. Seems I`ve never seen so much info about any other aircraft in free source .

Found info about Cold war`s Top 5 jets rating in Military Watch Magazine most-capable-jets-of-the-cold-war-in-air-to-air-combat (militarywatchmagazine.com)

And russian version here: Американский журнал рассказал о пяти лучших истребителях холодной войны (topwar.ru)

Edited September 24, 2023 by Logan54

[Logan54]

For All who interested in MiG-25 or another Soviet module in DCS, you can vote in this thread:

 

[Iron_Man]

В 23.09.2023 в 01:09, upyr1 сказал:

Thanks, for posting. 

Not planned- does anyone think we could get Bulgarian manuals? 

Any manuals are useful. 
 

Not planned by ED, but a good mod maker or a third party developer can totally create this module. We just need enough people in the community of the MiG-25 supporters.

В 22.09.2023 в 11:27, Logan54 сказал:

According this information, using MiG-25 in DCS will be absolutely unique and interesting.

MiG-25PD (ed. "84D") (1978) — interceptor fighter. A Sapphire-25 radar with an AVM-25 calculator is installed, capable of detecting targets with an EPR of more than 10 m2 at a distance of 100 km, automatically accompany them at a range of 75 km, accompany up to 6 targets "on the pass" with a viewing angle in the horizontal plane of +/-56 degrees and in the vertical plane of 6 degrees, having improved capabilities for detecting targets on the ground background. A 26SH-1 heat direction finder is installed under the nose of the fuselage. The launch range of the air-to-air missiles upgraded in 1975, which received the designations R-40RD and R-40TD, has increased. Also included in the armament are short-range missiles R-60 (later R-60M), which in the amount of 4 pieces can be hung under external pylons instead of 2 R-40TD missiles using special twin guides. The normal take—off weight increased to 34920 kg, and the maximum - to 36720 kg. On the new aircraft , it was possible to hang a PTB with a capacity of 5,300 liters . The flight range with supersonic speed (M = 2.35), without PTB, with 4 P-40 was 1250 km; with subsonic speed — 1730 km . With the use of PTB , the range increased to 2,400 km . The aircraft reached an altitude of 19,000 m in 6.6 minutes, and its practical ceiling was 20,200 meters. MiG-25PD fighters were externally distinguished by an elongated nose covering the radar equipment. The new aircraft received upgraded R15BD-300 engines with a resource increased to 1000 hours, providing a drive for more powerful three-phase current generators. They were mass-produced in Gorky (Nizhny Novgorod).
MiG-25PDS (1978) — a modified interceptor fighter with the replacement of the Smerch radar (RP-25) with the Sapphire-25 (S-25), the R15B-300 engine with the R15BD-300, parts of other equipment, as well as the use of R-40DR missiles/DT and R-60. According to the type of MiG-25PDS, previously released MiG-25P aircraft were refined.
The MiG-25PDSL (1985) is a modified interceptor fighter equipped with a Beryoza—LM radiation warning station, a Gardenia-1FU active interference station (in a suspended container) and passive interference shooting devices. According to the MiG-25PDSL type, the previously released MiG-25PDS aircraft was being finalized. The modification was not mass-produced.

MiG-25 BM (1983) — air defense breakthrough aircraft. In total, less than 40 units were produced. The main armament is 4 X—58 missiles with a passive radar head of four sub-bands and a target detection station "Sych-M". It could carry missiles with a low-power YABCH. After striking the enemy radar from the stratosphere, conditions were provided for the actions of other types of aviation to an operational depth (up to 500 km from the front line).

MiG-25RB (ed."02B") (1970) is a single—seat high—altitude operational reconnaissance aircraft - bomber. Photographic equipment of the MiG-25R type, SRS-4A radio intelligence station. The maximum mass of the bomb load is 4000 kg (4-8 FOTAB—100-80, 8 FAB-500M-62). For automatic bombing at specified coordinates, the navigation system "Peleng-D" was used (in subsequent modifications — "Peleng-DM"). Carrier of nuclear weapons. They were built serially for two years. In 1972, four vehicles were tested in real combat conditions of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

The procedure for preparing and performing bombing on the MiG-25RB consisted of the following sequence of operations:

- Before departure, the aircraft was installed on a geodesically equipped parking lot with two or three landmarks at a distance of at least 2 km, the coordinates of which were known
- The scout was being prepared for departure by specialists in all specialties: fuel was being refueled, a program was being introduced in the CVM
- Bombs were suspended
- At the end of refueling and suspension, with the help of a geodetic instrument (theodolite), the geographical coordinates of the aircraft parking place and the parking course of the aircraft were determined with an accuracy of 3 °. The received data were entered into the digital computer
- The pilot was obliged to start the engines as soon as possible, taxi to the start, the flight director had to give the aircraft a "green" street so that errors in determining the coordinates of the aircraft by the inertial system would not accumulate
- After takeoff, the plane went to the specified route. When approaching the target, but no closer than 120 km from it, the correction of the coordinates of the aircraft's location from the radio navigation system was disabled.
- At a distance of 90 km from the target, the command "Turn on the weapons" came from the speech informant from the Central computer and the scoreboard with a similar inscription began to flash.
- The pilot turned on the necessary equipment and controlled the position of the aircraft on the combat course
- At a range of 40 ± 2 km (depending on altitude and flight speed), the pilot received the command "Drop (bombs)". At the same time, the bombs began to be automatically dropped, but the pilot had to duplicate the reset by pressing the combat button.
- The return to your own or one of the three replacement airfields programmed on the ground could be made in automatic or manual mode.

The technological preparation time of one aircraft for re-departure was 1 hour 20 minutes, and the squadron 7 hours 30 minutes.
The first bombing was successful. The regiment received a rating of 4.3.
For aerial photography or radar reconnaissance, small deviations along the course did not have a big impact, but when flying bombing, high accuracy of aiming the aircraft at the target is necessary. The main method of bombing with the MiG-25RB was navigation bombing. After all, there was not even a bomber or rifle scope on the plane. The standards of such bombing with the use of the "Peleng-DM" system are: an excellent rating at a deviation from the target of 800 m, a good rating at a deviation from the target of 1600 m, an assessment of "satisfactory" at a deviation from the target of 2400 m. For aircraft equipped with the Peleng-2 system (MiG-25RBSH, RBF, RBT) and Peleng-2M (MiG-25RBM), the standards were 400,800 and 1,200 m, respectively.
It should be noted that the errors in range and course during bombing had different values and for the "Peleng-DM" system were ± 820 m in range and ± 1750 m in course. Taking into account the standards and capabilities of the "Peleng-DM" system, the bombing of the regiment was almost always performed with good and excellent ratings. For bombing, such deviations were very large and the results of such an application from a military point of view were very modest. It is possible that during the global war (for which they were preparing at that time) this disadvantage was supposed to be compensated by the use of nuclear bombs.
It is necessary to pay tribute to the industry – with the advent of the Peleng-2 system, it became possible, using the correction in front of the target from the long-range navigation radio system, to reduce the deviation to ± 20 m. However, such accuracy could be achieved in the absence of radio interference from the enemy.
The Peleng-2 system had another advantage, contributing to an increase in combat readiness. One day, during bombing flights to the Shchuchin airfield, where 10 orap was based, fog descended. This could disrupt the flight to the test site, because when preparing the aircraft's navigation system for departure for bombing, it is necessary to determine the parking course with the help of a theodolite according to a landmark remote at a distance of at least 2 km.
The flight would have been disrupted if there were no planes with the "Peleng-2" system. In the presence of this system, the coordinates of the runway were laid in the CVM, and the aircraft finished training already at the start. The results of using this method exceeded all expectations, and the task was completed.

One of the most typical operations with the use of MiG-25RB was the bombing of the Iranian island of Kharq. On this island, located near the southern borders of Iraq, the Iranian side has placed oil storage tanks (tanks about 124 m in diameter), each protected by collapse and oil terminals for transferring oil to tankers. Khark Island with dimensions of 1x2.5 km was the optimal target for the guidance system of the MiG-25RB aircraft, the errors of which were ± 820 m from the target in the direction of flight and ± 1750 m laterally.
Flights to this island were supposed to be made from the Nasiriya air base. Three MiG-25RB aircraft with tail numbers 140, 141 and 120 were being prepared for flights. Soviet advisers specially summoned to the airbase compiled a list of equipment settings that needed to be performed on the aircraft. All work was carried out by Iraqi officers under the supervision of advisers. To defeat the oil storage facilities, the Iraqi side allocated three sorties.

The first flight was made by aircraft No. 140 with four FAB-500AT bombs. The principle of Iraqis photographing the results of bombing attacks helped here. The photos showed that all four bombs with a small spread hit the terminals with a flight of about 1 km and a deviation to the left of 800-1000 m. This was indicated by clouds of smoke from burning oil. Specialists corrected the data in the computer, and the second bombing was carried out with a slight shortfall. At the same time, the bombs hit a tanker standing near the coastline. After making adjustments again, they carried out the third sortie, in which they hit the oil storage facilities with three bombs. This operation aroused the admiration of the Iraqis, once again confirming the high combat capabilities of the MiG-25RB. However, despite the obvious facts, even the Iraqi chiefs said that the Russian khabirs (specialists) would come to the airbase to tweak something - the planes bomb normally. And after they leave the base, all the equipment settings are returned back. The seemingly unsolvable riddle had a very simple answer. Without the control of Soviet specialists, the adjustment work was carried out not by officers, but by non-commissioned officers and soldiers of the Iraqi Air Force, from whom it was very difficult to demand high-quality work.
The entire history of the combat use of the MiG-25RB in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and the North Caucasus, undoubtedly proved one thing - the reconnaissance bomber and its modifications are the only aircraft in the world with unique capabilities that have not been fully disclosed.

source:  МиГ-25 | это... Что такое МиГ-25? (academic.ru)  Самолет-разведчик МиГ-25РБ (airforce.ru)

 

Yes sir, you are 100% right. 

[Iron_Man]

RAZBAM has all the resources to make the MiG-25. Moreover, one of the devs mentioned on discord that the size of the existing maps Sinai and Syria are large enough to accommodate the Foxbat speed. Part of the problem is that the majority of DCS jet community are used to lower altitude ops, but it’s merely habitual. It’s not a rule that DCS jets must fly not above 40-50k feet. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Iron_Man

[Logan54]

2 минуты назад, Iron_Man сказал:

Moreover, one of the devs mentioned on discord that the size of the existing maps Sinai and Syria are large enough to accommodate the Foxbat speed.

If I understood right, Foxbat is able to climb extremly fast (average climb rate is 208 meters/second). Just 2 mins to climb at tactical level. This is not as we usually see with MiG-21.

[Iron_Man]

Foxbat is efficient only when using afterburners which is for the most part, most of the time on ascent and maintaining cruise 2.5 Mach. At altitude above 20km, it covers a lot of ground and considering altitude and speed differential, the likelihood of threat even from AIM-54C becomes very slim. Upon descent, MiG-25 were usually met by 21s patrolling the area. 

[Iron_Man]

Very comprehensive video! 

 

[upyr1]

56 minutes ago, Iron_Man said:

Any manuals are useful. 
 

Not planned by ED, but a good mod maker or a third party developer can totally create this module. We just need enough people in the community of the MiG-25 supporters.

If you look at the Thud document info dump it looks like a third party developer is using them for a Thud module. So I think a Foxbat info dump would have the same result. 

[Logan54]

8 минут назад, Iron_Man сказал:

Very comprehensive video! 

Yep this guy knows a lot to explain 25`th abilities. I posted 2 his interviews with former Foxbat pilot, but seems its pretty hard for english speaking ppl to understand video even with subtitles.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Logan54

[Iron_Man]

Very good MiG-25 review by Ward Carroll

 

[upyr1]

20 hours ago, Iron_Man said:

RAZBAM has all the resources to make the MiG-25. Moreover, one of the devs mentioned on discord that the size of the existing maps Sinai and Syria are large enough to accommodate the Foxbat speed. Part of the problem is that the majority of DCS jet community are used to lower altitude ops, but it’s merely habitual. It’s not a rule that DCS jets must fly not above 40-50k feet. 

 

I hope they are planning to do it. 

[Iron_Man]

If the community demonstrates enough interest in the Foxbat, then - who knows. The plane is truly unique in its capabilities. 

[Silver_Dragon]

21 hours ago, Iron_Man said:

Foxbat is efficient only when using afterburners which is for the most part, most of the time on ascent and maintaining cruise 2.5 Mach. At altitude above 20km, it covers a lot of ground and considering altitude and speed differential, the likelihood of threat even from AIM-54C becomes very slim. Upon descent, MiG-25 were usually met by 21s patrolling the area. 

That's going to be difficult... RAZBAM is focusing on aircraft that have been in service in Latin America (the Mig-19PF and Mig-23MLA are based on Cuban models) and USA, and the Mig-25 has never been on American soil. The problem remains that you have to have not only documentation if someone has none restricted. A file on the internet is no good, as Wags said as an example of "a certain Greek F-16 manual". SMEs are also required to validate models, systems and weapons, and wind tunnel models to the EFM.

Another point against, is the list of aircraft under development and planned by RAZBAM has very big (Mig-23MLA, Super Tucano, Pucará, Mirage IIIEA, etc), so it is not something for the short or medium term. There is more chance that another 3rd Party will try to do it, and I don't see it as a first choice.

[SOLIDKREATE]

7 hours ago, Iron_Man said:

If the community demonstrates enough interest in the Foxbat, then - who knows. The plane is truly unique in its capabilities. 

This is a true statement. I fought for the 105.

[Iron_Man]

23 часа назад, Silver_Dragon сказал:

That's going to be difficult... RAZBAM is focusing on aircraft that have been in service in Latin America (the Mig-19PF and Mig-23MLA are based on Cuban models) and USA, and the Mig-25 has never been on American soil. The problem remains that you have to have not only documentation if someone has none restricted. A file on the internet is no good, as Wags said as an example of "a certain Greek F-16 manual". SMEs are also required to validate models, systems and weapons, and wind tunnel models to the EFM.

Another point against, is the list of aircraft under development and planned by RAZBAM has very big (Mig-23MLA, Super Tucano, Pucará, Mirage IIIEA, etc), so it is not something for the short or medium term. There is more chance that another 3rd Party will try to do it, and I don't see it as a first choice.

I guess it’s just overall attitude I disagree with when it comes to a possibility for developing the MiG-25. Many folks are rather trying to find all cons and state that it’s not possible or not doable or anything else in that fashion. The mindset should be “even if we have a lack if info on it, what can we create with what’s available”. Clearly, I see a lot of folks objecting to the 25 rather than trying to constructively see what could be done. For anyone who is not supporting the MiG-25, support something else but quit spreading “it’s useless” vibes here. To say no to the Foxbat just because you are bored and end up in this thread is definitely not helping.