VKB HOTAS, Phase One

[Gianky]

3 hours ago, virgo47 said:

BTW: Enigma has a good video review on his YouTube channel with some interesting thoughts and solutions, e.g. encoder to axis, etc. Compares it with Virpil Throttle CM3.

I'm still waiting for EU pricing, I hope it will not be that off from US (+VAT of course), because in US prices the value is very good (even if I add ~20% for VAT).

It's in shop!

https://flightsimcontrols.com/product-category/controllers/throttles/

€ 355 for standard and € 415 for max, VAT included!

EDIT: they'll start shipping at the end of the next week, they don't have the units yet, but began selling them:

https://flightsimcontrols.com/2023/09/08/stecs-in-eu/

Apparently, prices are higher, due to the air shipping of the first batch.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Gianky

[virgo47]

40 minutes ago, Gianky said:

It's in shop!

https://flightsimcontrols.com/product-category/controllers/throttles/

€ 355 for standard and € 415 for max, VAT included!

EDIT: they'll start shipping at the end of the next week, they don't have the units yet, but began selling them:

https://flightsimcontrols.com/2023/09/08/stecs-in-eu/

 

Thanks for the info, it must be a day max or so.

Well, the pricing isn't THAT great after all 320 USD + 20% would be around 360 EUR, but it's 415, so the EU is paying an additional 15% premium, not to mention shipping - but I guess that's EU reality. But it was my birthday recently, so I'll probably finally replace my TWCS.

3 mins later: I opted for Standard after all, and it's ordered! Damage is done...

Edited September 8, 2023 by virgo47

[Gianky]

Good for you, Virgo!

I'm afraid this first batch's price is influenced by the air delivery, when they'll start receiving units by sea the prices should lower a bit.

[virgo47]

51 minutes ago, Gianky said:

Good for you, Virgo!

I'm afraid this first batch's price is influenced by the air delivery, when they'll start receiving units by sea the prices should lower a bit.

What? Oh, shh... you're right: https://flightsimcontrols.com/2023/09/08/stecs-in-eu/ (last paragraphs), I wish the warning was closer to the actual price tag.

That's the price for impatience but never mind now.

[Gianky]

Sorry man, I was updating my post as I was reading the news on their website, guess you bought before I changed my post.

If it can make you feel better, the Standard is already sold out, so I think you did good pressing that button, I'm afraid it'll be back in stock only at the end of September, begining of October.

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, Gianky said:

Sorry man, I was updating my post as I was reading the news on their website, guess you bought before I changed my post.

If it can make you feel better, the Standard is already sold out, so I think you did good pressing that button, I'm afraid it'll be back in stock only at the end of September, begining of October.

 

Man they just started selling these things, surely they planned a little better than that?

[Gianky]

Hey Dburne,

I can't find it anymore, but I remember quite well I saw on VKB board they initially indicated the end of September for STECS availability in the EU shop, specifying that a first batch was under way by ship and there was the possibility of an airlift.

Since the ones they're selling now are the ones that will get in EU by air, I'm assuming that the ones being brought by ship will be in EU by the end of September, as initially stated, at most the beginning of October.

However, this is just my conjecture based on what I read, so I could be wrong.

[virgo47]

OK, I've got mine for two days. It's a great piece of gear. I love the detent system and overall feel. However, one of my fears came true and so far I can't get to a satisfactory solution. I love the encoders on the STEM module, they are useful and I'll use them as encoders. But so far, I hate the encoders on the grip. They are no substitute for a real axis. True, they can be configured as an "axis" and move it relatively, which seems fine, but their step is way too big - ~15°. This is fine for encoders, but not as a minimal step for an axis. You can have either a fast and imprecise axis, or a slow axis that is hardly usable.

Do you have the throttle and prefer the encoders? How do you use them? For what function in what planes? Do you use them as encoders or mapped as an axis?

I know we're talking "money" here, but I wish any of the triggers had a spring-loaded axis (e.g. for eastern-style brakes if you don't have a stick with it) and there was a spring-loaded self-centering axis and another normal rotary axis instead of those two encoders. Encoders can't even work as push-and-hold for some action.

The rest of the throttle is great. I like the Standard version, good size, not that much bigger than my old TWCS, and actually narrower. Great upgrade with tons of new possibilities. But I'm not sure when (and IF) I overcome those encoders on the left grip. Not a good substitute for an axis, and I have no use for encoders there. So far all the uses I came up with would be better served even with self-centering two-way switch/hat.

Edited September 21, 2023 by virgo47

[SuperKermit]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb virgo47:

Do you have the throttle and prefer the encoders? How do you use them? For what function in what planes? Do you use them as encoders or mapped as an axis?

I do not own the throttle, but I have a NXT Joystick with the encoders at the base. I use one of them as a virtual zoom axis. Wouldn’t that work as well with those on the throttle?

[virgo47]

5 hours ago, ChrisKermit said:

I do not own the throttle, but I have a NXT Joystick with the encoders at the base. I use one of them as a virtual zoom axis. Wouldn’t that work as well with those on the throttle?

I have Gladiator joystick and use the encoder as an encoder. Is your zoom fluent as a real axis? How do you do it? Mine encoder 'axis' has distinct steps. I don't want that.

[Gianky]

@virgo47 if my memory isn't playing tricks on me, I recall watching a video on Youtube some days ago, where a guy addressed exactly the issue you're talking about, using the left grip internal wheel as a zoom axis in Falcon 4 BMS. I've been looking for that video, but I can't find it anymore, anyway, you should be able to change that behaviour via software.

EDIT: found it, it was in Enigma's review. Check the video from this time stamp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIRpAG2c2ug&t=715s

Edited September 23, 2023 by Gianky

[virgo47]

11 minutes ago, Gianky said:

@virgo47 if my memory isn't playing tricks on me, I recall watching a video on Youtube some days ago, where a guy addressed exactly the issue you're talking about, using the left grip internal wheel as a zoom axis in Falcon 4 BMS. I've been looking for that video, but I can't find it anymore, anyway, you should be able to change that behaviour via software.

EDIT: found it, it was in Enigma's review. Check the video from this time stamp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIRpAG2c2ug&t=715s

 

Yup, I know about that one. But the axis has big steps for each click. There is nothing in between. It's not a deal-breaker, but it's annoying. Encoder is very poor substitute for an axis. I didn't know how poor, but it was worse than I expected. For some axes (where not enough resolution or fluency is OK) it's usable, but for many it is a big compromise. In the end I decided to control my zoom with buttons - I use MB2 hat forward/backwards + press for zoom reset. I wish I could do it with an axis, but I'm over it at this moment. I still miss at least some axes for other things (L-39 can use more axes, so can warbirds), but I already understand I can't expect this from the throttle.

Otherwise the throttle is very good.

[SuperKermit]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb virgo47:

I have Gladiator joystick and use the encoder as an encoder. Is your zoom fluent as a real axis? How do you do it? Mine encoder 'axis' has distinct steps. I don't want that.

Well, same with mine. It is not as fluent as an analogue axis, but it is good enough. 

[SuperKermit]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb Gianky:

EDIT: found it, it was in Enigma's review. Check the video from this time stamp

P.S.: I also saw that video and wondered, how he managed to get that fluent behavior. I tried to use his settings (“virt” in the button setup) but did not get it to work. 

[virgo47]

30 minutes ago, ChrisKermit said:

Well, same with mine. It is not as fluent as an analogue axis, but it is good enough. 

On L-39 there is a twist on the throttle grip that controls "target distance" for the sight. I use the ring-finger encoder configured as axis for that. I still have to make like 4 moves to go all the distance (and it is still not fluent, of course) - but for that it's usable. I don't need it that fast nor that precise. Although on TWCS you could have that. So I live with that. I'll also try it for radar elevation in more modern planes, I guess it will be acceptable. The encoder under the ring finger is also easy to mess with, so I'd not risk binding it to anything I can't change accidentally. Target distance or slight change in radar elevation is not a problem, so I guess it will work for that.

BTW: If you want to use the encoder for anything axis-like, you better configure it as axis, because using an encoder for increase/decrease actions is even slower than using a key/button you can press and hold.

Edited September 23, 2023 by virgo47

[Delta-canard]

I don't have the STECS but am watching it carefully.

I really like the four encoders on my Winwing throttle base, I sue them as Comms 1, Commes 2, Baro and courseline (in the Harrier)/course bug (L-39); in the Mirage I have 2 of them bound to the HSI knobs, one for baro and one for the green radio. I too am a little concerned for the loss of the encoders. I'd also like some additional levers (think nozzles in the Harrier, maybe wingsweep, maybe piston engine controls).

[virgo47]

17 minutes ago, Delta-canard said:

I don't have the STECS but am watching it carefully.

I really like the four encoders on my Winwing throttle base, I sue them as Comms 1, Commes 2, Baro and courseline (in the Harrier)/course bug (L-39); in the Mirage I have 2 of them bound to the HSI knobs, one for baro and one for the green radio. I too am a little concerned for the loss of the encoders. I'd also like some additional levers (think nozzles in the Harrier, maybe wingsweep, maybe piston engine controls).

I guess encoders on Orion work on the same principle - did you compare how quickly you can set the course knob with the encoder compared to a button inc/dec press?

For me the upgrade from TWCS is incredible. TWCS main throttle pot needed to be sprayed regularly and still started to produce noise after a few days. The TDC ministick had totally noisy Y axis (going down on its own), etc. The long-term STECS quality is to be seen, of course, but I believe in VKB and the much higher price tag. Technically, I have 5 good axes on STECS (2-throttles, thumb wheel, x/y thumbstick), while TWCS had 5 as well (-one throttle axis, but +1 paddle axis), so if I don't count the dual throttle (which is excellent) I actually lost one great spring axis I used as zoom and with a modifier as a brake. But I don't regret it, because I have a lot of new buttons - and I use modifier+ministick as a brake.

So yeah, compared to Orion, you will miss many more axes. And if you compare it with something like Eagle grips, there is no comparison in this department.

Going from Orion, it's probably not such a significant upgrade and it is much more questionable. Even if the throttle and detent system is of better quality - which I can't compare, but the detent system is indeed genius.

[Gianky]

@fallout9 is it possible to have a STECS with 2 STEMs? E.G. a STECS standard with MFH and a second STEM attached to the latter?

[AlpineGTA]

3 hours ago, Gianky said:

@fallout9 is it possible to have a STECS with 2 STEMs? E.G. a STECS standard with MFH and a second STEM attached to the latter?

Like this? It works really well for me.

[Gianky]

Yes, Alpine, that's the concept, but I'm wondering if I can put a STEM on the MFH, instead of a vertical SEM

[AlpineGTA]

Oh I see. You mean have a STEM on the MFH, like on the STECS Max, but with the STECS Standard, so you have effectively two STEMs attached. Basically the same as my picture but with a STEM in place of the SEM? Interesting. You would think it should work because the STEM has a BUS connector just like a SEM. But I don't know, it's probably something someone from VKB can answer?

[Gianky]

Yep, that's exactly what I meant. I have the doubt that it can't be done with two examples of the same module, due to possible hardware conflicts, but, as you said, only VKB can answer the question.

Thank you anyway for your help.

[SuperKermit]

From https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/stecs-stem-standard-throttle-extension-module/

„Only one STEM can be installed per STECS“

[Gianky]

Thank you, @ChrisKermit, I was afraid of that. Well, I'll put a SEM-V there!

[AlpineGTA]

3 hours ago, ChrisKermit said:

From https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/stecs-stem-standard-throttle-extension-module/

„Only one STEM can be installed per STECS“

Good spot. Easy to forget, probably always best to check the website!

A SEM-V still works really nicely with it.