WINWING Orion2 F-16EX Viper Throttle Combo arrived & ANT ELEV knob issue [Solved]

[CrashMeTwice]

Greeting Pilots!

Hope you are all doing well!

Today the WINWING Orion2 F-16EX Viper Throttle Combo I have ordered has arrived. Assembly and test is planned for today as well. Will have some more pictures and a video about my findings up soon. So far the build quality suits my expectations. I am quite exited about this new controller for my simpit!

Edited September 2, 2023 by CrashMeTwice

[737Driver]

Please keep us updated with your experiences with this kit.

The messages on this and other fora, as well as YouTube, give very mixed reports varying from utter junk to the best sim kit since (chinese) sliced bread.

[CrashMeTwice]

On 8/12/2023 at 1:25 PM, 737Driver said:

Please keep us updated with your experiences with this kit.

The messages on this and other fora, as well as YouTube, give very mixed reports varying from utter junk to the best sim kit since (chinese) sliced bread.

I'll keep it updated and will post my findings. Thanks for your reply!

All put together, tested, and confirmed working. Next step is to take a look at the inner workings.

[Guest]

Mine came with a very flimsy Antenna elevation knob with a lot of play in the center region. I am in dialog with winwing to see what they will do about it.

Loose ant elev

[CrashMeTwice]

On 8/26/2023 at 8:23 PM, Razor68 said:

Mine came with a very flimsy Antenna elevation knob with a lot of play in the center region. I am in dialog with winwing to see what they will do about it.

Loose ant elev

Same here! My antenna elevation knob/dial is also a bit on the wobbly side. Just feels feels loose and not as I would like it to be. I am going to investigate the issue (taking the grip apart) and post my findings.

[CrashMeTwice]

Orion2 Base:
Well, first of all, the price is in the affordable category. I got it on sale and saved almost 80 bucks over the VIRPIL throttle. It was delivered within 8 days to my door with excellent tracking via FedEx Economy.
There are a lot of switches to play with. The throttle movement feels very smooth and allows for fine tension/friction adjustments. I recommend to do the friction adjustments before installing the Viper grip which combines both levers into one moving motion. You can't tell which lever has tension. The back lighting is a nice green and not too obtrusive.

The entire Orion2 throttle base is now all plastic, including the bottom mounting plate and detent plate (more on this later). I am a metal type of guy and it looks and feels somewhat cheap. I know that metal has increased in price but I would have gladly paid 20 bucks more for that feature. The base mounting holes are obstructed and near impossible to reach. I will have to do some innovative modding to directly mount it to my simpit cockpit.
The included suction cup feet are likely for use with the standard throttle and not for the Viper combo as I couldn't find a way to use or attach them properly. I certainly wouldn't want to use the adhesive pads to practically glue the base to my desk or mount.
Until I make a custom mount, I use two plastic clamps holding it onto an aluminum profile of my office simpit. They definitely didn't think that through, what a bummer!

The software (SimAppPro) is good enough but I did not find it as detailed as VIRPIL's which can be configured to the extreme. In SimAppPro, it took me a bit of time to get used to the "Chinese" type layout and navigation in the app. Maybe I am just too old as I don't need fancy and prefer "to the point" software.

OK, took a look at the inner workings of the Orion2 base. Well, I am neither impressed nor disappointed. I kinda found what I was expecting. The throttle levers and the throttle lever housing are made from cast aluminum. The two levers to the right are also made from cast aluminum but have a plastic casing. I personally think it is not VIRPIL quality as VIRPIL pretty much CNC's everything. That said, VIRPIL doesn't offer a Viper Grip and function, thus, I bought this combo from WINWING.

The cable left of the throttle has been routed wrong by the factory and that's caused it to bind and kink when placing it into the cable clamp on the grip. After solving the routing part by simply unplugging it from the PCB header and re-routing it correctly, the issue was solved. However, after re-assembly of the Orion2 base, because this cable is not used for the Viper grip, I affixed it to the left side of the base enclosure which solved any issues I may encounter for good. The cable on the right side doesn't twist or bind.

Overall the switches and levers work flawlessly and feel as if they are made of good quality. The switches are all through hole soldered which should make it easier to find a replacement and replacing them if I encounter a failure at some point in the future.
The PCB looks organized and well engineered, easy to navigate, and traces are not obscured in any way. Everything is held in place well enough.

Next on my to-do list during the coming week is a deeper look into the Viper grip and detent assembly. I will post my findings for anyone interested.

[Guest]

I also did think it was made of metal and it kind of sucks that it is plastic, i would pay a little bit more for a metal version. The The F-16 stick and orion 2 base is pretty good but not as good as the Virpil Mongoose base that i also have. The Virpil sticks are not good, i have the Mongoose T-50CM2 and it is very plastic fantastic, the labeling rub of pretty fast and the hat switches sucks.

Are there any way to make the thumb levers more stiff?

Edited August 29, 2023 by Razor68

[CrashMeTwice]

On 8/28/2023 at 9:57 PM, Razor68 said:

I also did think it was made of metal and it kind of sucks that it is plastic...

 

I have the VPC Constellation ALPHA Grip and I do like it in ED. It also has labels which don't last. I do want a different stick for DCS though, thinking of rolling my own. The VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base is awesome, very high quality in my opinion.
Took the entire Viper grip apart yesterday and I think I found the issue with the antenna elevation knob/dial and I think I have a permanent fix for it. Will try that out today when everything is re-assembled. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Guest]

Yeah i have the 50CM2 base and it is very high quality, i am not going to sell it but set it up for use with heli flying.

[FZG_Immel]

On 8/29/2023 at 3:35 AM, CrashMeTwice said:

Orion2 Base:
Well, first of all, the price is in the affordable category. I got it on sale and saved almost 80 bucks over the VIRPIL throttle. It was delivered within 8 days to my door with excellent tracking via FedEx Economy.
There are a lot of switches to play with. The throttle movement feels very smooth and allows for fine tension/friction adjustments. I recommend to do the friction adjustments before installing the Viper grip which combines both levers into one moving motion. You can't tell which lever has tension. The back lighting is a nice green and not too obtrusive.

The entire Orion2 throttle base is now all plastic, including the bottom mounting plate and detent plate (more on this later). I am a metal type of guy and it looks and feels somewhat cheap. I know that metal has increased in price but I would have gladly paid 20 bucks more for that feature. The base mounting holes are obstructed and near impossible to reach. I will have to do some innovative modding to directly mount it to my simpit cockpit.
The included suction cup feet are likely for use with the standard throttle and not for the Viper combo as I couldn't find a way to use or attach them properly. I certainly wouldn't want to use the adhesive pads to practically glue the base to my desk or mount.
Until I make a custom mount, I use two plastic clamps holding it onto an aluminum profile of my office simpit. They definitely didn't think that through, what a bummer!

The software (SimAppPro) is good enough but I did not find it as detailed as VIRPIL's which can be configured to the extreme. In SimAppPro, it took me a bit of time to get used to the "Chinese" type layout and navigation in the app. Maybe I am just too old as I don't need fancy and prefer "to the point" software.

OK, took a look at the inner workings of the Orion2 base. Well, I am neither impressed nor disappointed. I kinda found what I was expecting. The throttle levers and the throttle lever housing are made from cast aluminum. The two levers to the right are also made from cast aluminum but have a plastic casing. I personally think it is not VIRPIL quality as VIRPIL pretty much CNC's everything. That said, VIRPIL doesn't offer a Viper Grip and function, thus, I bought this combo from WINWING.

The cable left of the throttle has been routed wrong by the factory and that's caused it to bind and kink when placing it into the cable clamp on the grip. After solving the routing part by simply unplugging it from the PCB header and re-routing it correctly, the issue was solved. However, after re-assembly of the Orion2 base, because this cable is not used for the Viper grip, I affixed it to the left side of the base enclosure which solved any issues I may encounter for good. The cable on the right side doesn't twist or bind.

Overall the switches and levers work flawlessly and feel as if they are made of good quality. The switches are all through hole soldered which should make it easier to find a replacement and replacing them if I encounter a failure at some point in the future.
The PCB looks organized and well engineered, easy to navigate, and traces are not obscured in any way. Everything is held in place well enough.

Next on my to-do list during the coming week is a deeper look into the Viper grip and detent assembly. I will post my findings for anyone interested.

how difficult would you rate the dissassembly et re assembly of this ?

[Phantom711]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb FZG_Immel:

how difficult would you rate the dissassembly et re assembly of this ?

Too difficult as to do it on a regular basis, i.e. swapping between different grips.

[CrashMeTwice]

10 hours ago, FZG_Immel said:

how difficult would you rate the dissassembly et re assembly of this ?

Fairly easy, it is pretty much just paying attention to it. I recommend to download the online manual (and maybe print it out like I did).
In any case,  a bit of patience goes a long way. So, make sure to have a cup of coffee or tea and a cookie nearby

It took me about 20 minutes to mount the grip, detent plate, and adjusting it. Removing the grip takes even less time.
The complete disassembly of the base to bare-bone took me about 45 minutes and about the same time to put it back together. The PCB has "nut shaped" hexagon markers printed on it which tells you where the nuts go on and where not before putting the lower case back on. The round hole markers have to be left out for the long bolts which are used to secure the lower case to the upper case (the one with the switches).  Before disassembly you need to pull of the round red button caps and the grey rotary dial caps. You don't have to worry of the position as are "keyed" and you can't put them back on wrong. I took a lot of images, filmed everything, and will have a video about it hopefully soon up on YT and my website, I am currently editing the final touches on Part 4 of my Cyclic Force Trim Mod project which goes live on or before this weekend. Right after that I will work on the WINWING one.

[CrashMeTwice]

Got it all done
I machined a brass bushing for it. It was a lot of work and measuring to get this right. I spent an additional hour sanding with 1000 and 1500 grit. I also sanded the rough area on the cast around the Knob hole smooth and I smeared a small film of engine assembly grease between the knob and the grip's cast.  In addition, just to make sure the nut doesn't loosen itself up, I used a pea sized blob of J-B Weld epoxy (40& Epoxy/60% Hardener) between the Knobs thread and the nut's flat top section. The O-Ring and washer are no longer used or needed. It now works perfectly, no more play or wobble. Very accurate movement. Both stop positions work as they should and the center position is now easy to feel and engaging correctly. Movement with my index finger is smooth as butter and no longer "touchy" as heck. I am super happy with the result!

I took a lot of images, filmed everything, and will have a video about it hopefully soon up on YT and my website, I am currently editing the final touches on Part 4 of my Cyclic Force Trim Mod project which goes live on or before this weekend. Right after that I will work on the WINWING one.

 

[CrashMeTwice]

One more thing I wanted to mention. If you are in the same situation as I am with the Ant Elev Knob, take your own measurements before running out to your machining buddy to make it for you. Cast's can differ depending on the condition of their tooling. So longer the tooling is used so higher the tolerances. Just a tip from an old man.

[CrashMeTwice]

If you have issues with your ANT ELEV knob please post here.

Would really like to know if this is a common problem or an isolated issue. Thanks!

[Comrade Doge]

On 9/4/2023 at 6:19 PM, CrashMeTwice said:

If you have issues with your ANT ELEV knob please post here.

Would really like to know if this is a common problem or an isolated issue. Thanks!

Hi, mine has the same issue, seen here: https://youtube.com/shorts/uTOx63t_v1A?si=zmx8htO0uAOF7usf

I would appreciate a video on how to fix this as well

Edited September 17, 2023 by Comrade Doge

[Gripen 4-1]

On 9/4/2023 at 5:19 PM, CrashMeTwice said:

If you have issues with your ANT ELEV knob please post here.

Would really like to know if this is a common problem or an isolated issue. Thanks!

Same here

[CrashMeTwice]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:36 AM, Comrade Doge said:

Hi, mine has the same issue, seen here: https://youtube.com/shorts/uTOx63t_v1A?si=zmx8htO0uAOF7usf

 

Great video on showing the issue! Yours is even less than it was on mine. I will have a video up soon (working on it). I understand that machining a bushing isn't something everyone is able to do and I am thinking on coming up with something a bit easier to implement. I am trying resin prints right now, also maybe on having a small batch inexpensively produced. I have made a few bushings for a friend but it is frankly said very time consuming to make these. I am a one (old) man gang

On 9/17/2023 at 4:35 AM, Gripen 4-1 said:

Same here

Good to know! Thanks for posting it here! That makes now 7 people (without me) I know who have that same issue! Definitely a manufacturing defect.

[XwhiskeysX]

I'm on the other end of the spectrum - my antenna elevation rotary is waaaay too tight.  Any suggestions on loosening it? 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, XwhiskeysX said:

I'm on the other end of the spectrum - my antenna elevation rotary is waaaay too tight.  Any suggestions on loosening it? 

Sounds like you must loosen the nut inside.

[FZG_Immel]

On 9/4/2023 at 5:19 PM, CrashMeTwice said:

If you have issues with your ANT ELEV knob please post here.

Would really like to know if this is a common problem or an isolated issue. Thanks!

I just received mine. Happy with everything BUT the ANT ELEV knob. while the center is there, it doesnt turn smoothly. its like grippy, and doesnt have a smooth rotation. I dont really know how to fix that.

[Comrade Doge]

Here's what Winwing support says about the issue, it seems like we are left with fixing it ourselves...

[Guest]

On 9/20/2023 at 1:27 PM, FZG_Immel said:

I just received mine. Happy with everything BUT the ANT ELEV knob. while the center is there, it doesnt turn smoothly. its like grippy, and doesnt have a smooth rotation. I dont really know how to fix that.

It is an o-ring (like in the pictures above) that makes the grip, if it has to much pressure on it it will grip to much. Looks like the thread depth on the gray plastic ant knob can vary so you will be able to tighten the nut more and have too much pressure on the o-ring.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Razor68

[CrashMeTwice]

11 hours ago, Comrade Doge said:

Here's what Winwing support says about the issue, it seems like we are left with fixing it ourselves...

Wow!

Well, it is also normal for a bad tire to wobble which doesn't mean we should keep driving and not fix it.

[CrashMeTwice]

New video up!
WINWING Orion2 F-16EX Viper Throttle Combo Assembly & My 2 Cents
This is not a "Product Review" just some thoughts I wanted to share with you while I am assembling my WINWING Viper throttle. Hope you enjoy this!




I am currently in the process of editing two more, a deep dive inner look of the Orion2 base and the throttle grip ANT ELEV knob repair video.

Edited September 28, 2023 by CrashMeTwice