Depleted uranium article

[GGTharos]

I realize you're missing the point deliberately. It's okay I suppose.

[hitman]

Its not like DU rounds are made out of Pu228 or U235 with a hydrogen core. Its actually made up of the garbage remains of spent uranium, which is almost as harmless as taking a shower with my mom when shes drunk. Well, come to think of it, your safer off eating DU. Guess what lead is? Decayed uranium. You dont see all these health watch groups trying to eradicate the worlds weapon supplies of lead, do you? China seems to be the lead exporter of lead...ask Wal Mart. Lead is just as bad as DU.

Edited March 10, 2009 by hitman

[EtherealN]

You should try Polonium 210. Halflife of ~140 days. That'll mess you up. :)

 

I did also find some isotopes of Polonium with a half-life measured in microseconds, but how you are supposed to ingest them before they've poofed I don't know. Hell, how you are supposed to get them out of the synthesizing apparatus before they're gone is difficult to see too. :P

 

Edit: I've actually always been quite fascinated with the duality we have in radioactive materials. The ones that are REALLY dangerous to life aren't that big of a problem to handle, since they are dangerous in part due to the short half-life wherefore they will "soon" be harmless. The ones that pose negligible immediate danger is the bitches in storage, since there's so much of it and it has to be stored for so long. Wikipedia lists "natural Uranium" as being "about 99.27 percent U-238, 0.72 percent U-235, and 0.0055 percent U-234", and it's the 235 you want to get at for both weapons and power plants. That's a lot of left-over after you've sent it through the centrifuges.

Edited March 10, 2009 by EtherealN

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I realize you're missing the point deliberately. It's okay I suppose.

Well, how about the breathing argument ...

 

Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP! :smilewink:

[GGTharos]

You're still missing the point deliberately. ;)

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I am against the use of radioactive waste as weapon. You talk about "stop breathing" to protect against DU particles.

 

Enough said, Jay Leno is on TV ...

 

Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP! :smilewink:

[GGTharos]

I guess you are still missing the point. The point was, you want to stop breathing around them for the exact same time you'd want to stop breathing if someone pelted the area around you with lead projectiles.

 

In short, both are just as dangerous as dust. Period, end of story.

 

Radiation? There's minimal radiation hazard from DU and it fades quickly even if it presents itself.

 

Maybe you'd like to start looking at being against using any metals as a weapon altogether, that would make more sense ;)

[EtherealN]

You really are missing the point on purpose... :P

 

The point is that it's the metal toxicity that is hurtful with depleted uranium, not the negligible radiation. So in actual harm you have a bigger problem with lead.

 

And if one wants a real hint at how western society overreacts to the evil radiation, one can point out that coal power in the united states annually kills an estimated 30 000 people, whereas the IAEA estimates that the Chernobyl disaster will have caused about 4000 deaths when you include increased cancer frequency caused by the fallout. That's 7 and a half Chernobyls a year in the US alone.

 

(By the Gods I hope they get fusion power working soon... :P )

[hitman]

I see what hes trying to do...

 

Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP!

 

Im not going to participate in this one any more. He only puts that in his sig when he responds to GG.

[EtherealN]

Sometimes I wonder if people in general out there hear of depleted uranium shells and then get the idea that the point to their use is to have radiation as a weapon. You know, it's one of those things that would be evil enough that the Great Satan known as the United States would definitely do just because it's evil and Bush probably has some friends that make the stuff.

 

...and so on.

 

Not of course saying that this describes Vejlko, but in other occassions where I have run into the topic it has darn well seemed like it's getting turned into a proper conspiracy theory.

 

One of these days we'll see people moving to ban tritium-inlaid iron sights on pistols, because it's RADIOACTIVE! :|

[Groove]

It's sweet how some of you try to make DU "harmless".

 

It's so harmless that M1 Tanks hit by rounds which have cracked the DU armor plates have to be investigated by NBC teams for their radiation level before its being towed away ;)

 

Im too lazy to search for that killed M1 Tank in Iraq with the big " NO RAD" spray on the side.

[nscode]

But you see, they aren't equaly dangerous. (lead and DU)

 

First of all, those researches are questionable, but I won't go there, since it's kindof political.

 

But even if they are equally dangarous when testing them in a lab or looking at data sitting behind a desk, but out there in a war zone the thing is:

-people aren't afraid of lead particles-

So, the psychological effect DU has is HUGE. It's not enough that you endure all the stress of bombs exploding around you and bullets fly by your head, you add to that a constant sensation that some evel radiation is eating you inside. And that alone will kill you faster that any slow acting poison or radiation out there. So what? You educate people in the field. Don't think so. You can't force the genie back in the bottle.

 

What ever the reasons, the fact remains that people die faster and in greater numbers in areas exposed to DU, than in areas exposed to other ammo.

[hitman]

It's sweet how some of you try to make DU "harmless".

 

It's so harmless that M1 Tanks hit by rounds which have cracked the DU armor plates have to be investigated by NBC teams for their radiation level before its being towed away ;)

 

Im too lazy to search for that killed M1 Tank in Iraq with the big " NO RAD" spray on the side.

No ones making DU seem harmless. Most of you are making it out to be the most lethal man made material since the atomic bomb, and thats what the point is...helping you realize that its not any more dangerous than lead. In a sense, the 2 materials are closely related to one another. By the way. most of these Chobham armor plates are made with DU as well. Your aircraft that you fly on are balanced with DU counterweights ballast. If you dont agree with that underlined statement, I will be more than happy to provide references for you. And yet the big fuss is about your armor piercing rounds. You REALLY overestimate this material. If you want a better reason to figure out how stupid this argument is, the detection element in your smoke detector at home is made of a radioactive isotope.

Edited March 10, 2009 by hitman

[EtherealN]

It's not that DU is "harmless" or that the radiation is something to just completely shrug off. It's that I have a problem seeing it being worse than other things to a sufficient degree as to merit special treatment, especially since it's main mode of injury in a person or animal is the same as lead and several other metals - many of whom are employed in various munitions and other tools of war. I have yet to see a study that seem to employ sufficient controls for all such things - in fact I would expect that satisfactory controls in studies of this nature are practically impossible for all kinds of reasons, wherefore there will be continued arguing about it.

 

Something that really really gets me up on the subject is when I see the same old tired radioactivity scare where anything radioactive causes a huge backlash, to the exclusion of greater issues. In this case the prime one of course being that innocents always get killed in war so we might want to try avoiding war in the first place. :P And as I wanted to illustrate with the deathtoll estimations of US coal plants and Chernobyl, sometimes the big nasty extremely scary thing that we all focus on removes our attention from things that in actual bodycount is orders of magnitude worse.

 

Also, nscode, the thing is that people should be afraid of lead particles. We are risking a situation where people will go "were those DU rounds? No? Allright let's go in then" - and then STILL be at risk of metal poisoning. Because we helped reinforce the belief that it's Depleted Uranium that is the nasty one as opposed to a nasty one.

Edited March 10, 2009 by EtherealN

[EtherealN]

Oh, and on the slightly more humorous side, I bet you lead posioning kills more people than depleted uranium. If you catch my drift... >.>

[Groove]

Let's be honest, in the enviroment it's used it is much more dangerous than lead. Im not a militant DU hater, but it is very dangerous as an aerosol.

 

The usage of DU in civilian planes is not the same as shooting it around ;)

[nscode]

Also, nscode, the thing is that people should be afraid of lead particles. We are risking a situation where people will go "were those DU rounds? No? Allright let's go in then" - and then STILL be at risk of metal poisoning. Because we helped reinforce the belief that it's Depleted Uranium that is the nasty one as opposed to a nasty one.

 

 

Yes, they should. But I'm not talking about that. I've seen people go crazy (literally) from just believing they've been exposed to DU when they haven't been exposed to anything.

[GGTharos]

Yes, let's be honest: DU kills far fewer people than lead on the battlefield - as well as other assorted elements used in explosives etc. ;)

 

The only conclusion is that it isn't anywhere near as dangerous as the rest of this stuff. It isn't the only poison around, and it isn't by far the most dangerous nor nastiest one. People are fixated on it, and that's all there is to it.

 

Let's be honest, in the enviroment it's used it is much more dangerous than lead. Im not a militant DU hater, but it is very dangerous as an aerosol.

 

The usage of DU in civilian planes is not the same as shooting it around ;)

[Fudd]

Thats all I'm saying. Focusing your energy on stopping the conflict would save a lot more lives than campaigning against DU. ;)

[monotwix]

I remember watching on the news the criticism of the use of DU, a few year back and frankly the critics were raising the same kind of questions probably because of the imbalance between the fear of the hazard and the actual facts.

So if it’s not as hazardous as people think it is, then it doesn’t matter what they think ain’t gona die from thinking.

It could only put people off from recycling the uranium trashed metal.

[hitman]

Yes, they should. But I'm not talking about that. I've seen people go crazy (literally) from just believing they've been exposed to DU when they haven't been exposed to anything.

Well, then the next time they take a flight somewhere, tell them they were exposed to DU. Just because the military uses it doesnt make it a military only application.

[monotwix]

And also tell them that the ejection seats are out of order, only parachutes today.

[CE_Mikemonster]

Just for reference here; it is not the radioactivity of DU that is dangerous.

[monotwix]

Just for reference here; it is not the radioactivity of DU that is dangerous.

 

Yes correct it’s the payload that is dangerous.

Edited March 10, 2009 by monotwix

[chafa2]

I had started a thread on this and was directed here. Interesting reading.