cannot repoduce and missing track file Hellfire Lima's not tracking in MP

[Insanatrix]

Not sure if this is a known bug, or just me not doing something correctly however I was just on a MP server flying the AH-64D using the Lima Hellfire's and had George engaging targets and the Hellfire's were hitting the wrong targets and also flying out to the target area and flying right into the ground. I practiced in SP as I haven't flown the Apache in over a year and was having no issue's with the Lima's tracking the correct targets using the same procedure.  Have George WAS Hellfire's, Have him slave to target area, select the target and verify it in the TADS, Wait for him to lase the target and store the target data and then give him consent to fire. 12 missiles and not a single one ever hit the correct target.

[NeedzWD40]

At present time, the INU position degrades too rapidly (as seen by the white PSN indication on the TSD) and is not properly corrected as it should be, which causes the missile to get erroneous information. The only consistent fix I've found is to command INU resets as close as possible to the engagement area. Some maps seem to degrade more rapidly such as Syria.

[Insanatrix]

This was the Sinai map. I'm not 100% sure that would be the issue as IIRC the Lima's are supposed to lock on to any target in the area. I watched one splash about 40 feet from a BMP-2 which should have been well within it's search area. I had to constantly have George slave and de-slave to different targets in order for the missile to track a target, even though it tracked the wrong target. If he didn't slave and de-slave and he fired, it would just impact the ground in the area not even close to the area the TADS was looking. Makes me think there's a bug there somewhere with the Lima tracking in multiplayer.

[NeedzWD40]

41 minutes ago, Insanatrix said:

I'm not 100% sure that would be the issue as IIRC the Lima's are supposed to lock on to any target in the area.

Not exactly, but that's neither here nor there. Try an INU reset ~5 minutes before you reach your firing position and see if the accuracy is on-point.

[Insanatrix]

Can't hurt to try but my point was that it doesn't happen offline or in SP missions. Seems to be MP only. Same map sSinai, same rough distance to targets and offline I can follow the same procedure and hit them fine. Online, they miss wildly.

[NeedzWD40]

There's a glitch with INU degradation/coordinates in multiplayer versus single player. If you have access to the info bar, check it and compare the TSD PP readout to see if there's any offset, as usually there is a large one in multiplayer even when fully aligned.

[Insanatrix]

I flew on a different server and they worked fine just like in single player. I might stick with single player for this module till the bugs get worked out more.

[Falconeer]

Just flew around in Caucusus MP and couldn't hit anything with the L version

[Gunslinger52]

On 9/5/2023 at 3:59 PM, NeedzWD40 said:

There's a glitch with INU degradation/coordinates in multiplayer versus single player. If you have access to the info bar, check it and compare the TSD PP readout to see if there's any offset, as usually there is a large one in multiplayer even when fully aligned.

Hi NeedzWD40,

can you tell me what level of drift (INU inaccuracy) you noted in MP, causing this?

'52

[NeedzWD40]

3 hours ago, Gunslinger52 said:

can you tell me what level of drift (INU inaccuracy) you noted in MP, causing this?

In MP scenarios, oftentimes the TSD will display a white PSN indication on the lower left side and the UTIL page will show white on position accuracy, even after the INU has reached full alignment. This comes up during flight frequently as well. For whatever reason, the INU seems to have an excessive drift simulated along with a failure to correct via GPS in multiplayer. I haven't done any scientific measuring of it, but a rough guess would be a drift of about a meter per minute. There's also about a ~250m easting and ~70m northing offset on the MGRS coordinates even when fully aligned, which is most noticeable when entering in coordinates for points or dropping points via the TSD.

Commanding an INU reset of both units seems to cause a temporary zeroing of this error for the AGM-114L, though it doesn't address the offset issue with point creation.

[Floyd1212]

@Lord Vader Can you clarify if ED is actively looking at this issue that has been described here, and in other threads?

This thread is marked "cannot reproduce missing track file", but there have been many videos posted showing the issues, and many possible explanations described throughout the past couple months since the Lima was introduced.  As you know, large MP track files taken from populated MP servers can be problematic. Please tell us what you need from us and we will be happy to assist.

Even if a tester needs some MP seat time in the front of an aircraft in a MP server, I'm sure you would get plenty of volunteers that would fly someone out for some testing.

[BIGNEWY]

hi @Floyd1212

we need a short as possible track replay example, video is not enough as when we try to reproduce we are not seeing the issues.

Video can show something but without a track replay we have nothing to show the dev that can be used in a debug build. 

The track example enables the dev to see the problem first hand, create a fix, and test it to see if the work done has solved the problem. 

Ideally if a short single player track can be created showing the problem it is the best option, if it is only a MP issue again it needs to be a short track, as we can not use a 2 hour long mission to reproduce an issue, the tracks are not reliable enough in servers that have many external scripts usually. 

thanks

[Gunslinger52]

20 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

In MP scenarios, oftentimes the TSD will display a white PSN indication on the lower left side and the UTIL page will show white on position accuracy, even after the INU has reached full alignment. This comes up during flight frequently as well. For whatever reason, the INU seems to have an excessive drift simulated along with a failure to correct via GPS in multiplayer. I haven't done any scientific measuring of it, but a rough guess would be a drift of about a meter per minute. There's also about a ~250m easting and ~70m northing offset on the MGRS coordinates even when fully aligned, which is most noticeable when entering in coordinates for points or dropping points via the TSD.

Commanding an INU reset of both units seems to cause a temporary zeroing of this error for the AGM-114L, though it doesn't address the offset issue with point creation.

Hi NeedzWD40.  I flew for approx. 65nm yesterday on a MP (Syria) server, and had (in Util page) only gained about 3m in inaccuracy.  Is the attached where I should be looking?  This is from the internet, but I had an approx. 7m 'Position Confidence' for both INU1 & 2.  Never the less, my Lima missed by some considerable distance (nice, easy, stable shot for George).  

[NeedzWD40]

2 hours ago, Gunslinger52 said:

Is the attached where I should be looking?

Unfortunately, the position confidence indication isn't accurate to reflecting the amount of drift; what happens is it falls into the PSN state, then goes back to aligned, then PSN, and so on. Even without that though, it still implicitly drifts. If you try it again, wait til you're ~4min from your battle position and do a total INU reset.

[[DE] T-Bone]

However, the big difficulty here is that the INS drift occurs only after a long flight time (for me and my cpg) and thus a "short track" is almost impossible to create, this should be taken into account. We will try to create a track file where the error is traceable, but I think it will be very long.

If this is not possible because the track is not usable in its size/length, then we need a strategy how to track the bug.

[BIGNEWY]

I would suggest continue to wait as we have INS improvements planned for a future update. 

thanks

[[DE] T-Bone]

20 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I would suggest continue to wait as we have INS improvements planned for a future update. 

thanks

Ok, that sounds like a plan, then we won't have to work with the track file. I'm looking forward to the update. 

[Falconeer]

For those who have this issue, try this:

 

I tried it a couple of times today and sometimes i have this issue where the missiles miss their target. My steps to "fix" this for now is to reset the INU under Util page of the TSD. Works 100%, all of my fired missiles hit their intended target after the reset

Edited September 16, 2023 by Falconeer

[Floyd1212]

Reset both? Reset one and then switch over to use that one?

[Falconeer]

4 minutes ago, Floyd1212 said:

Reset both? Reset one and then switch over to use that one?

i reset both to be sure

 

[DevArchitect]

@BIGNEWY Here is a short track of george piloting while I use the Lima hellfires. A good number of them score hits, but I cannot hit a stationary vehicle with a stationary helicopter. The last few limas miss significantly. See track.

Limas_missing.trk