Joystick without Springs or FFP - Yaw Autopilot not working, weird trim behavior.

[bertOC]

I got a dead stick cyclic, and rudder pedals with a hydraulic damper, which stay in place after being released.

I selected "Joystick without springs or FFB" as my trimmer mode, and turned off rudder trim in the special options, similar to what i have set in the Mi-24.

The Mi-24s cyclic trim with these modes selected serves only as an autopilot pause/update function, but in the Mi-8 it looks like it has no function at all.

This leads to the yaw autopilot entering pause mode, since the rudder won't see the new center. Yaw autopilot only works this way, if the pedals are in the center position.

I should be able to have i.e. 20% right pedal, press the trim button, and have the yaw autopilot reengage, since force trim has virtually set a new center, right?

[admiki]

Not really. Difference between 8 and 24 is that trim release does nothing to the AP in Mi-8.

 

[bertOC]

It certainly does something to the yaw channel. With instant trim mode or centering trim mode selected, the force trim button sets a new neutral position for the yaw axis.

 

Yaw channel only works with the pedals at their virtual center, so not being able to set that in no-spring mode makes it go into indefinite pause mode.

[admiki]

Actually no, yaw channel works with a position where you engaged it. Push left/right pedal before engaging and check yourself.

I'm not sure how all this is implemented, because Mi-8 SCAS/AP is designed with flight engineer inputs in mind. I just never use yaw channel, Mi-8 is quite stable bird.

 

[bertOC]

I have springless pedals for flying helicopters, which do not return to center. Not sure if i made that clear enough above.

The Yaw Autopilot is not sending any inputs if my pedals are not centered, that's my problem. It does not matter where or when i engage the yaw AP.

I know this is intended and correct behavior with centering rudder pedals, but it makes no sense for springless setups.

[admiki]

9 hours ago, bertOC said:

I have springless pedals for flying helicopters, which do not return to center. Not sure if i made that clear enough above.

The Yaw Autopilot is not sending any inputs if my pedals are not centered, that's my problem. It does not matter where or when i engage the yaw AP.

I know this is intended and correct behavior with centering rudder pedals, but it makes no sense for springless setups.

Yes, I have the same. Why are you flying with yaw AP in the first place? Since we don't have bindings for microswitches, it only works as a heading hold. Hip is stable enough to fly without it.

[bertOC]

Is this the arguing about how to fly hip forum? I just want my yaw AP to work, ever had to fly a straight line for more than 5 minutes?

[admiki]

Fair enough.

Good luck with figuring it out

[bertOC]

I did figure out there is incorrect behavior, thats why i made a post in the bugs forum.

[Flappie]

Does that help?

 

[DeMonteur]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:25 PM, bertOC said:

I got a dead stick cyclic, and rudder pedals with a hydraulic damper, which stay in place after being released.

I selected "Joystick without springs or FFB" as my trimmer mode, and turned off rudder trim in the special options, similar to what i have set in the Mi-24.

The Mi-24s cyclic trim with these modes selected serves only as an autopilot pause/update function, but in the Mi-8 it looks like it has no function at all.

This leads to the yaw autopilot entering pause mode, since the rudder won't see the new center. Yaw autopilot only works this way, if the pedals are in the center position.

I should be able to have i.e. 20% right pedal, press the trim button, and have the yaw autopilot reengage, since force trim has virtually set a new center, right?

Yaw channel of autopilot when it is on on AP panel in Mi-8 is disengaged as soon as you have foot on rudder pedals because there are microswitch in each pedal. Then the AP heading index goes to the middle position and the AP do not hold the heading. When both (ok all four with MC in mind) microswitches are released, the AP will start to hold heading.

Microswitches in pedals are not simulated in Mi-8 yet, so I suggest you to do not use heading channel of autopilot unless you want to fly straight. 

[bertOC]

7 hours ago, DeMonteur said:

Yaw channel of autopilot when it is on on AP panel in Mi-8 is disengaged as soon as you have foot on rudder pedals because there are microswitch in each pedal. Then the AP heading index goes to the middle position and the AP do not hold the heading. When both (ok all four with MC in mind) microswitches are released, the AP will start to hold heading.

Microswitches in pedals are not simulated in Mi-8 yet, so I suggest you to do not use heading channel of autopilot unless you want to fly straight. 

You didn't understand my problem, i can not use the heading AP to fly straight at all.

My pedals do not go back to center, they look like this when configured for helos.

null

I can only use the heading AP when the pedals are centered, moving them to a desired position and trimming does not disengage the microswitches.

My stick also has no centering force, i only need the trimmer switch to interact with the autopilot really.

The game needs a logic to have force trim release set a new autopilot center for the stick and pedals.

[DeMonteur]

6 hours ago, bertOC said:

You didn't understand my problem, i can not use the heading AP to fly straight at all.

My pedals do not go back to center, they look like this when configured for helos.

null

I can only use the heading AP when the pedals are centered, moving them to a desired position and trimming does not disengage the microswitches.

My stick also has no centering force, i only need the trimmer switch to interact with the autopilot really.

The game needs a logic to have force trim release set a new autopilot center for the stick and pedals.

I understand your problem. It is caused by lacking the possibility to resetting the heading AP by some quicker way like it is in RL with microswitches on pedals. I will make the request... Best way will be probably few options like pedal microswitch keybind or reseting heading channel 

[bertOC]

14 hours ago, DeMonteur said:

I understand your problem. It is caused by lacking the possibility to resetting the heading AP by some quicker way like it is in RL with microswitches on pedals. I will make the request... Best way will be probably few options like pedal microswitch keybind or reseting heading channel 

Thanks, just to make sure though, you said the game is lacking a a quicker way to reset heading AP. With my setup there is no way at all to reset the heading autopilot. Even turning the yaw channel off, and then on again will not make it work either. The game thinks i am constantly holding my pedals off center without realizing that i have trimmed a new center.

Having proper microswitch simulation would be awesome though!

Edited October 12, 2023 by bertOC

[PawlaczGMD]

FYI, the trimmer button does not interact with the AP at all in the Mi-8. It has literally no function in the game unless you use trim special options.