So whats the magic sauce to actually get Petrovich to FIRE AT-6 or AT-9 after target aquisiton.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

So why does AI Gunner not fire AT-6 or AT-9 missiles

I get as as far as

Weapons are ON

Weapons are Ready Petrpvich

MIssile Selected Petrovich

Target Aquired Petrocvich

Target in Range  Petrovixh

Weapons are armed ( I can fire cannon and rockets), Missiles are armed.

But Petro never fires.

Edited October 6, 2023 by DmitriKozlowsky

[AeriaGloria]

Do you get a subtitle in the top right saying “TARGET OBSTRUCTED?” Do you have R-60M loaded? Did you take any damage before trying to fire ATGM? 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Here is track. But be forewarned. TRACKS ARE USELESS! Unless you have exact same version as mine 2.8.8.43704 with exact same mods and exact same rez settings, TRACKs do not play back correctly. In short they lie!

Petrovich_not _fire.trk

No, no onbstruction mwssages, and no R-60 are loaded. Just AT-9 on outer pylons.

[admiki]

Maybe next time record a track with vanilla DCS? AKA no mods?

And try to make your own mission where you are in the air, ready to engage, so we don't have to waste time watching you wiggle around the cockpit?

For the record, Petrovich works for me, both in SP and MP. Every time I'm within constraints and LOS to target is clear, he fires.

[AeriaGloria]

Yeah, are you getting gone when you out the floating pipper inside the fixed net 1 degree pipper? 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I see no floating pipper! What are you reffering to?

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I see no floating pipper! What are you reffering to?

The floating pipper is the CCIP cross that shows range on the 12-3 o’clock range. When you put ASP-17 into auto mode, and put weapon selector to OFF, you see this pipper anytime the periscope is open, and it shows where the CPG is looking 

You have to get the floating pipper inside the 1 degree/17.5 mil circle on the fixed grid sight. You will then get tone and be able to fire 

Thisnis important becuase if you aren’t lined up, the missile needs to maneuver a lot off the rail and will spin out of control often or miss at shorter distances. It also needs to be close enough to the radio beam (which is coupled to periscope LOS) to be able to get commands and be able to be seen by the periscope (so periscope can track it to generate commands)

By default ASP-17V is in MAN mode, where you control pipper movement. In order to see floating pipper move on its own for CCIP/ATGM firing, move the auto/man switch on bottom left of sight upward to the “auto” position 

You can always try the ATGM training mission again 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I am the pilot. Petrovich AI is the gunner and he-it is controlling aiming and firing of missiles. Do I have this backwards? This is kind of confusing. 

[AeriaGloria]

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I am the pilot. Petrovich AI is the gunner and he-it is controlling aiming and firing of missiles. Do I have this backwards? This is kind of confusing. 

Have you done the tutorial or read chucks guide/manual?

Petro will guide a missile fine, but in order to fire that missile (get launch authority) you have to center the target on by our boresight to within 1 degree. You will hear a tone when this happens. As soon as the missile is fired you can turn to +/-60 degrees as long as bank isn’t larger than 24-30 degrees….

 

This is long but seeing it in action might help 

CPG guided missile, just can’t fire until you point nose at target, becuase the missile has to fire in the same direction the periscope/radar director is looking so it doesn’t have to make a big maneuver and is easily seen by the periscope/radar for guidance 

Think of it as an early heat seeker thar can be caged. It is fire and forget, but you have to point your nose at the target first……

 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Well I do hear the tone. I point the cross-hair on target. Everything AI is 'red' so ROE is free fire. Petro says targeyt aquired-target in range- tone is playing,. BUT Petro does not fire, and eventually, I imagine I fly inside the AT-6/9 range and Petro cqan't fire. So I don't know what I am missing.

[admiki]

51 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Well I do hear the tone. I point the cross-hair on target. Everything AI is 'red' so ROE is free fire. Petro says targeyt aquired-target in range- tone is playing,. BUT Petro does not fire, and eventually, I imagine I fly inside the AT-6/9 range and Petro cqan't fire. So I don't know what I am missing.

Once again, remove all mods, make a mission with air start, post track

[JG11Preusse]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb DmitriKozlowsky:

Well I do hear the tone. I point the cross-hair on target. Everything AI is 'red' so ROE is free fire. Petro says targeyt aquired-target in range- tone is playing,. BUT Petro does not fire, and eventually, I imagine I fly inside the AT-6/9 range and Petro cqan't fire. So I don't know what I am missing.

Enable Petrovic > hold long the same button, as you ordered him to warm up weapons (ROE on the picture below).

Then it will switch to "free fire" (green colour) and Petrovic will launch missles after holding HUD Circle for a few seconds on the target (tone)

null

Edited October 8, 2023 by JG11Preusse

[MAXsenna]

I am the pilot. Petrovich AI is the gunner and he-it is controlling aiming and firing of missiles. Do I have this backwards? This is kind of confusing. 

I wouldn't call him a gunner as he is gunless...

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[AeriaGloria]

Well, Petro AI display should be beige when powered up. As other poster said you might need to warm up weapons if you haven’t, or if you have it takes 3.5 minutes. If in free fire, it should be green

[admiki]

I think he meant that any AI (ground) unit is red so it's free fire (although with him you might never know, he posted bunch of "bugs" that were actually his error).

[JG11Preusse]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb AeriaGloria:

Well, Petro AI display should be beige when powered up. As other poster said you might need to warm up weapons if you haven’t, or if you have it takes 3.5 minutes. If in free fire, it should be green

What you also can do, to release the Missile and then you dont need Petro in "free fire" state, you just aim, hold tone and press release weapon button at you youstick.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Solved. FOund the magic sauce recipe. Petro hits tatgey with AT-6/9 about 70% of the time, and thays about good enough and expected from Russian-Soviet systems. The engagement range is kind of short. Similar to US PKWS laser guided rockets, maybe a bit shorter. How does one survive even short range NATO SAMs?

[AeriaGloria]

I find that surprising. My hit rate is closer to 90-95%. But I rarely turn with more then 5-10 degrees of bank while I have a missile out, and this is mostly on flat ground 

 

[admiki]

5 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Solved. FOund the magic sauce recipe. Petro hits tatgey with AT-6/9 about 70% of the time, and thays about good enough and expected from Russian-Soviet systems. The engagement range is kind of short. Similar to US PKWS laser guided rockets, maybe a bit shorter. How does one survive even short range NATO SAMs?

Care to share what is your solution?

Are you really saying that you are, at this point, surprised by the range of ATGMs, which had be known even before DCS Mi-24 was released?

[AeriaGloria]

I have no issue avoiding IR SAMs. Sometimes all the flares in the world won’t help you but you can do pretty well with your 192 flares.
 

Radar/SACLOS stuff is where you are usually out ranged and need to be more careful. Avenger/Strela/Stinger/Igla is a perfect opponent for it. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by AeriaGloria

[DmitriKozlowsky]

For Petro work with AT 6/9 

After start up;

Turn on weapons in upfront panel and have AI Petro turn on his systems. 

Set range to AUTO

Set Weapon to OFF/MISSILE

There are two small dark switches above weapons for syncing. Set both in up position 

Enable FIRE AT WILL for Petro.

Point toward target area.

Have Petro search for targets 

Set AI Petro to select ATTACKA MISSILE as weapon

Select a target from Petro list and tell AI Petro to engage.

After Petro reports weapon ready and target in range align Petro cross hair inside pilot crosshair and after missile ready tone sounds for one second without break Petro reports FIRING  fires the missile. Keep the target inside HUD until hit or miss. The lower the AGL at time of release the lower the probability of hit. Petro will report missile hit or miss.

When using rockets , or guns, have Petro search for targets,  but fire weapons yourself. All rockets , guns, and pods in Hind are LOS forward firing weapons , so those are your responsibility.  IMHO. Petro is used to search for targets and fire AT-6/9 missiles. I do enable AI countermeasures , but still fire flares/chaff manually when either Petro or Nadia reports a threat. I admit , missile evasion is poor. The Hind is huge and lumbering. Excessive roll or pitch , results in loss of control. Even empty Hind is heavy for available power and in my hands prone to VRS or settling with power. Pilot Visibility is poor , relative to Apache or Gazelle, so vertical landing in confined areas is difficult for me. Deck landings are somewhat normal as long as ship has 20 knot speed, and there is sufficient space. Hind appears to have similar clearance requirements as SeaStallion and Osprey. So land only on large moving ships. Hovering is a challenge due to GW and power limitations.  Hind acts more like a compound helicopter-fixed wing VSTOL then pure helicopter.  When empty with low fuel it will hover with high power settings. When loaded with weapons and fuel above 35% , bringing it to a stable hover is a danger frought challenge.  Have gear down if hovering IGE. 

Most takeoffs and landings I do are rolling with about 30 kph forward speed. I land with elongated  spiral landing pattern to shed speed and begin at least 1.5 km from landing spot.

To me Hind is more of a rotary wing compound  Very Short Takeoff and Landing aircraft , rather then a true helicopter.  Watching various historical docs and recent event videos it appears that's how Hind crews fly it. 

Russians and their clients love it, but I am aghast that they would deploy a combat battlefield helicopter of that size. It's huge.It needs stand off range missiles.  Combat hull losses Hinds took in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Georgia , MidEast, and Ukraine are huge. Being a Hind combat crew is a high risk job. MANPADS and IR SHORAD  chew it up.

In DCS, I think it needs more power. Even empty with no fuel , it's GW is near 90%. 

[AeriaGloria]

12 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

For Petro work with AT 6/9 

After start up;

Turn on weapons in upfront panel and have AI Petro turn on his systems. 

Set range to AUTO

Set Weapon to OFF/MISSILE

There are two small dark switches above weapons for syncing. Set both in up position 

Enable FIRE AT WILL for Petro.

Point toward target area.

Have Petro search for targets 

Set AI Petro to select ATTACKA MISSILE as weapon

Select a target from Petro list and tell AI Petro to engage.

After Petro reports weapon ready and target in range align Petro cross hair inside pilot crosshair and after missile ready tone sounds for one second without break Petro reports FIRING  fires the missile. Keep the target inside HUD until hit or miss. The lower the AGL at time of release the lower the probability of hit. Petro will report missile hit or miss.

When using rockets , or guns, have Petro search for targets,  but fire weapons yourself. All rockets , guns, and pods in Hind are LOS forward firing weapons , so those are your responsibility.  IMHO. Petro is used to search for targets and fire AT-6/9 missiles. I do enable AI countermeasures , but still fire flares/chaff manually when either Petro or Nadia reports a threat. I admit , missile evasion is poor. The Hind is huge and lumbering. Excessive roll or pitch , results in loss of control. Even empty Hind is heavy for available power and in my hands prone to VRS or settling with power. Pilot Visibility is poor , relative to Apache or Gazelle, so vertical landing in confined areas is difficult for me. Deck landings are somewhat normal as long as ship has 20 knot speed, and there is sufficient space. Hind appears to have similar clearance requirements as SeaStallion and Osprey. So land only on large moving ships. Hovering is a challenge due to GW and power limitations.  Hind acts more like a compound helicopter-fixed wing VSTOL then pure helicopter.  When empty with low fuel it will hover with high power settings. When loaded with weapons and fuel above 35% , bringing it to a stable hover is a danger frought challenge.  Have gear down if hovering IGE. 

Most takeoffs and landings I do are rolling with about 30 kph forward speed. I land with elongated  spiral landing pattern to shed speed and begin at least 1.5 km from landing spot.

To me Hind is more of a rotary wing compound  Very Short Takeoff and Landing aircraft , rather then a true helicopter.  Watching various historical docs and recent event videos it appears that's how Hind crews fly it. 

Russians and their clients love it, but I am aghast that they would deploy a combat battlefield helicopter of that size. It's huge.It needs stand off range missiles.  Combat hull losses Hinds took in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Georgia , MidEast, and Ukraine are huge. Being a Hind combat crew is a high risk job. MANPADS and IR SHORAD  chew it up.

In DCS, I think it needs more power. Even empty with no fuel , its GW is near 90%. 

Only switch on lower left of sight is needed in up position, that turns on CCIP and seeing where operator looks. The top one/one above it isn’t needed though, it’s for moving targets and isn’t modeled 

 

You also don’t need to keep the target in the HUD. The periscope can guide missiles 15 degrees up, 20 degrees down, and 60 degrees to each side. To warn you when turning after launch a warning light “LIMIT MANUEVER” turns on at 55 degrees from missile location to tell you you have 5 degrees of azimuth left 

But with how fast the missile is and low flight time, you can’t really use the full +/-60 degree range unless you are very slow and turning at max 20-25 degrees bank