AGM-65D Hand Off calibration questions?

[edudix]

Hello;

I have some questions regarding this topic in a cold start:

1.- Is there a manual or a guide to follow? Ive seen some vids but i dont get the point.

2.- How accurate is the calibration?

3.- Where do you do it? Airfield and how? Fliying while traveling to a mission? Which is the best place?

4.- Which firing method is the best? VIS or PRE?

BR

Edited October 6, 2023 by edudix

[razo+r]

1) There probably is. Have you checked the manual that comes with the module, or chucks guide? Be aware though that they will describe the same like in any video you've seen when it comes toboresighting mavericks. 

2) 100% accurate at the distance of boresight. Increasingly worse if closer or further from that distance. 

3) You can do it everywhere but in air before entering the AO is recommended. 

4) That totally depends on the circumstances and other things like if there is a steerpoint nearby, clouds, threats etc. But if the goal of the question is which mode gives you the most kills, the answer would be all of them. With VIS you just aquire the target visually, good for quick opportunities while PRE can be used to scout from farther away. Each mode has its own use with advantages and disadvantages. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by razo+r

[edudix]

15 hours ago, razo+r said:

1) There probably is. Have you checked the manual that comes with the module, or chucks guide? Be aware though that they will describe the same like in any video you've seen when it comes toboresighting mavericks. 

2) 100% accurate at the distance of boresight. Increasingly worse if closer or further from that distance. 

3) You can do it everywhere but in air before entering the AO is recommended. 

4) That totally depends on the circumstances and other things like if there is a steerpoint nearby, clouds, threats etc. But if the goal of the question is which mode gives you the most kills, the answer would be all of them. With VIS you just aquire the target visually, good for quick opportunities while PRE can be used to scout from farther away. Each mode has its own use with advantages and disadvantages. 

 

Hi razo+r many thanks for you answers, pretty useful!!!! 

Yep, if you prefer a quick action perhaps is better the VIS MODE, rather than the PRE mode, more focused to a area recognition.

Regarding the calibration, I´ve found it more easy when fliying than in airfield I don´t know why, perhaps Im doing something wrong. 

[edudix]

On 10/7/2023 at 12:38 AM, razo+r said:

1) There probably is. Have you checked the manual that comes with the module, or chucks guide? Be aware though that they will describe the same like in any video you've seen when it comes toboresighting mavericks. 

2) 100% accurate at the distance of boresight. Increasingly worse if closer or further from that distance. 

3) You can do it everywhere but in air before entering the AO is recommended. 

4) That totally depends on the circumstances and other things like if there is a steerpoint nearby, clouds, threats etc. But if the goal of the question is which mode gives you the most kills, the answer would be all of them. With VIS you just aquire the target visually, good for quick opportunities while PRE can be used to scout from farther away. Each mode has its own use with advantages and disadvantages. 

 

Hi Razo+r again, I´ve found difficult do it in an airfield. Every time I do it, following the steps (I guess), when I´m in the AO the MAV Seeker does not aim where the TGP does. Does not match. I´ve to do the boresighting on the fly.

Which technique do you follow????

[razo+r]

12 minutes ago, edudix said:

Hi Razo+r again, I´ve found difficult do it in an airfield. Every time I do it, following the steps (I guess), when I´m in the AO the MAV Seeker does not aim where the TGP does. Does not match. I´ve to do the boresighting on the fly.

Which technique do you follow????

The MAV will match the TGP at the distance at which you boresighted. If you boresight at 1NM, it will be accurate at this distance only. The further out you do it, the less apparent the error becomes. There is no "one distance fits all" solution in this case.

I've always done it in air.

Edited October 9, 2023 by razo+r

[void68]

Never BS on ground, you will never match the accuracy on a flat 2D (ground) at 1nm compared to 3D and a range of 10nm looking from above, even worse while the delta angle between the TGP target and the Mave head's target may be nothing at 1nm it will be a lot at 8nm so sometimes not boresighting them is better than doing a way off boresighting, the ground crew seems not to be too bad in pre-adjusting them. Curiosity: If you do a hot rearm on ground and get a new pack of Mavericks attached they are already boresighted like their already shot brothers. If that's simulated correctly it must be just the launching rail (which is still mounted on the Viper) that's subject to misalignment. Ok, I don't know if a F-16 is refitted "hot".

I always do BS in the air and get three times the kill compared to VIS or bad ground boresighting, i.e. I can attack 3-4 targets (stationary and somewhat close together) in one pass in PRE mode.  Given the time you can do lots of recon with the TGP, get an idea how the targets are arranged, start the attack run, pick the 1st target, TMS up / right, Handoff, micro adjust Maverick seeker on WPN page, another TMS up, launch and repeat. 3 Maves off the rail in less than 10s.

Each mode has it pros and cons. No recon, no loitering around, bad weather and more of an opportunity kill? Use VIS! Plenty of time to recon, little cloud cover, lots of targets somewhat cramped together? Use PRE. Just BORE almost never matched my taste, but there may be a reason for using it.

 

[Sacarino111]

8 minutes ago, void68 said:

uriosity: If you do a hot rearm on ground and get a new pack of Mavericks attached they are already boresighted like their already shot brothers. If that's simulated correctly it must be just the launching rail (which is still mounted on the Viper) that's subject to misalignment.

Hi.

As far as I know, you boresight the rail, not the missile. Is it accurate or not, can not tell, but I think this is the way it works.

Saludos.

Saca111

[Moonshine]

that makes no sense, the rail itself doesnt move at all. you boresight the missile seeker. you only have to do it once per station as it will share the BSGT data to the other missiles on the same station

[cesarferrolho]

Hi! In my limited experience, and even after watching some youtube tutorials... i find that boresighting on the ground is a waste of time, it will remain innacurate. I usually boresight in the air with the first target, and then, even if i need a second pass, locking the others will be much more accurate, sometimes automatic hand-off and lock will even work correctly.

[edudix]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:30 PM, razo+r said:

The MAV will match the TGP at the distance at which you boresighted. If you boresight at 1NM, it will be accurate at this distance only. The further out you do it, the less apparent the error becomes. There is no "one distance fits all" solution in this case.

I've always done it in air.

 

Yes, this is the reason why I in my case did not work, or Ive found many accuracy errors.

Thanks

12 hours ago, void68 said:

Never BS on ground, you will never match the accuracy on a flat 2D (ground) at 1nm compared to 3D and a range of 10nm looking from above, even worse while the delta angle between the TGP target and the Mave head's target may be nothing at 1nm it will be a lot at 8nm so sometimes not boresighting them is better than doing a way off boresighting, the ground crew seems not to be too bad in pre-adjusting them. Curiosity: If you do a hot rearm on ground and get a new pack of Mavericks attached they are already boresighted like their already shot brothers. If that's simulated correctly it must be just the launching rail (which is still mounted on the Viper) that's subject to misalignment. Ok, I don't know if a F-16 is refitted "hot".

I always do BS in the air and get three times the kill compared to VIS or bad ground boresighting, i.e. I can attack 3-4 targets (stationary and somewhat close together) in one pass in PRE mode.  Given the time you can do lots of recon with the TGP, get an idea how the targets are arranged, start the attack run, pick the 1st target, TMS up / right, Handoff, micro adjust Maverick seeker on WPN page, another TMS up, launch and repeat. 3 Maves off the rail in less than 10s.

Each mode has it pros and cons. No recon, no loitering around, bad weather and more of an opportunity kill? Use VIS! Plenty of time to recon, little cloud cover, lots of targets somewhat cramped together? Use PRE. Just BORE almost never matched my taste, but there may be a reason for using it.

 

Many thanks. Quite interesting!!! Yes finally Im doing what you said after several runs and training.

12 hours ago, Sacarino111 said:

Hi.

As far as I know, you boresight the rail, not the missile. Is it accurate or not, can not tell, but I think this is the way it works.

Saludos.

Saca111

Gracias!!!

[Sacarino111]

On 10/10/2023 at 10:06 AM, Moonshine said:

that makes no sense, the rail itself doesnt move at all. you boresight the missile seeker. you only have to do it once per station as it will share the BSGT data to the other missiles on the same station

Hi.

I did not make myself clear enough, I meant to say what you said.

Again, not a pro, but I don't think the rail irself moves physically, it is more an "offset" that applyes to all weapons in that rail, as you said.

In any case, do the boresight at about the same distance you intend to use the weapon, and in the air, so the BS is the most similar to the "real thing".

Saludos.

Saca111

[void68]

Am 11.10.2023 um 16:53 schrieb Sacarino111:

Again, not a pro, but I don't think the rail irself moves physically, it is more an "offset" that applyes to all weapons in that rail, as you said.

In any case, do the boresight at about the same distance you intend to use the weapon, and in the air, so the BS is the most similar to the "real thing".

I just have the idea, not the knowledge: It's the same as with wing mounted guns convergance: You define a point ahead of you where both "sights" should meet. In our case where Maverick seeker and TGP POI meet.

We discussed why the F-16 can't just calculate offset: move TGP seeker this amount, do triangular math and move the Maverick seeker that amount. Even with correctly boresighted at a certain range X the Mave's seeker will not be at the same POI as the TGP if at another range X +/- Y.

Very strange, but hey, A-G combat is art!