S-3B: ADM-141A, AGM-65F and AGM-84D

[Northstar98]

Hi everyone,

Now that the new S-3B model has been released (albeit in a potentially bugged state), would it be possible for the S-3B's weapons to be corrected, as well as to add some others that are accurate for it (ignoring ASW specific stores such as torpedoes, sonobuoys and mines, as those require additional core functionality in order to work).

The model we currently have depicts the S-3B as it was pre-1998 (i.e with AN/ASQ-81 MAD boom and all sonobuoy ports still present, from 1998 onwards the boom was deleted and at least most of the sonobuoy ports were blanked over as its role switched away from ASW).

Currently the S-3B has the following stores available:

• 300 USG drop tank
• Mk 82 500-lb LDGP
• Mk 84 2000-lb LDGP
• Mk 20 Rockeye II
• AGM-65D
• AGM-65K
• AGM-84A Harpoon IP
• AGM-84E SLAM

If the S-3B is to receive Maverick (which was post 2002 according to this, the same goes for SLAM), it should have the AGM-65F, not AGM-65D or K, neither of which is used by the USN. The SLAM should also use the AN/AWW-13 data link pod (EDIT: seeing as cooperative engagement capability isn't currently supported).

It should also have ADM-141A TALD available, which was utilised in the 1991 Gulf War. These are mounted on TERs on the wing stations, but I'm not sure if it can equip a total of 2, 4 or the full 6.

The Harpoon variant it should have is AGM-84D Harpoon Block 1C (as with the Hornet), it's probably still compatible with the AGM-84A, but the D is more appropriate (and has a far higher-quality model).

Edited July 29, 2024 by Northstar98
clarification on data link pod

[Vampyre]

  It should also have Mk-82 Snakeyes. If they are dropped as retards then they should only be dropped from stations 1 and 6 usually on TER's. When we dropped them from the weapons bays the fins were disabled and they were treated as regular Mk-82 LDGP's.

EDIT: We never dropped Mk-20's from the weapons bays either.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Vampyre

[Northstar98]

59 minutes ago, Vampyre said:

It should also have Mk-82 Snakeyes. If they are dropped as retards then they should only be dropped from stations 1 and 6 usually on TER's. When we dropped them from the weapons bays the fins were disabled and they were treated as regular Mk-82 LDGP's.

Thanks for your input, appreciated!

Do you know if the S-3B also had the Mk 83 available?

1 hour ago, Vampyre said:

EDIT: We never dropped Mk-20's from the weapons bays either.

Could you still do it or was it not a cleared loadout? (I assume clearance with the Rockeyes extending fins potentially being problematic).

I also assume they also carried (or at least had available) CBU-59 APAM and CBU-78 GATOR?

[Vampyre]

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

Thanks for your input, appreciated!

Do you know if the S-3B also had the Mk 83 available?

Could you still do it or was it not a cleared loadout? (I assume clearance with the Rockeyes extending fins potentially being problematic).

I also assume they also carried (or at least had available) CBU-59 APAM and CBU-78 GATOR?

Yes on the Mk-83 and yes on the Mk-20 fins in the weapons bay. As far as the CBU-78's are concerned, I'm not sure. I know the light and medium attack guys used them but I have never seen them mentioned in any of the manuals for the Viking probably because they were weapons designed to be used outside of the S-3's mission scope of Sea Control. The S-3's visual bombing sight was... suboptimal, to say the least. It was either a tape crosshair or grease pencil mark on the pilots windshield, so less than manual depression which is why it was not really used on anything smaller than a ship. I know the CBU-99 was used for certain though. Also, when dropping weapons from the weapons bay, the doors open way too wide. They could only open that wide when using the door switch on the belly of the jet. From the cockpit they would only open about half as wide as they do in game... just enough for release clearance. They also open way too fast.

EDIT Just went and looked and it seems that the CBU-59 was used at some point.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Vampyre

[Vampyre]

We also used the AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER in addition to the E. I never actually saw an AGM-84E CATM shape so I don't think they were used much after 1995.

[Northstar98]

27 minutes ago, Vampyre said:

We also used the AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER in addition to the E. I never actually saw an AGM-84E CATM shape so I don't think they were used much after 1995.

I did see a photo of one with an AWW-13 data link pod (as well as one with LANTIRN), but as I understand it, they were later editions? I'm trying to stick to stick to stuff pre-1998 given that our model retains the MAD boom and sonobuoy chutes, though given that we have AGM-65s (albeit wrong variants - I've definitely seen a picture of an S-3B w/ AGM-65F, not sure about E or E2/L) perhaps ED would be open to doing later stores.

[Silver_Dragon]

Actual S-3B, that missing many systems, weapons and equipment:

S-3B Viking ASW Patrol
Man Rtng: 2.0/1.5 Damage Value: 32
Size/Signature: Medium/Medium Bombsight: Manual

Counterm: 2nd Gen D Inflight Refuel: P
Sensors: APS-137 radar, MAD, 2nd Gen FLIR, 3rd Gen ES, Link 11 data link, 60 sonobuoys, UYS-1 sonobuoy processor

Throttle Setting/Speed in knots
Altitude Cruise Full Mil Reheat
Low: 350 440 --
Med: 350 450 --
High: 350 390 --

Ceiling: 10760 m Engine Type: TF
Cruise Range: 2300 nmi Int Fuel: 5975 kg

Additional Fuel Fuel Wt. Range Add.
300 USG drop tank 920 kg 415 nmi

Ordnance Loadouts: Payload: 4536 kg
• 2 drop tanks, 4 Mk46 Mod 2 or Mod 5 (1979) or Mod 5A(S) (1990) or Mod 5A(SW) (1996) or Mk50 (1991) torpedoes
• 2 drop tanks, 2 Mk46, 1 B57 NDB (retired 1991)
• 2 drop tanks, 2 Mk46, 2 Mk54 DC
• 300 USG buddy store, 1 AGM-84D Harpoon IC or 1 AGM-65E/F, 2 Mk82 bombs, 2 Mk46 Mod 5 torp (standard 1990s)
• 1 AGM-84H SLAM or 1 AGM-84K SLAM ER, AWW-13 guidance pod
• 2 AGM-65E/F Maverick or 2 Harpoon IC or 4 ADM-141 TALD decoys
• 10 Mk36 or 10 Mk62 or 2 Mk52 or 2 Mk55 or Mk56 or 2 Mk60 or 2 Mk65 mines

Remarks: In Svc: 1988 - Dec 08
Carries one 300 USG drop tank and one 300 USG buddy store as standard.
• Estimated sonobuoy loadout - 45 SSQ-53D/E/F (search), 6 SSQ-77C (localization), 9 SSQ-62C/D/E.
• Jul 87-Aug 94: 119 converted from S-3A (Atlantic Fleet Jul 87-Jul 91, Pacific Fleet Mar 92-Sep 94). Strength: 64 (Jun 05), 40 (May 06).
• Squadron strength: 10 (1987) 6 (1992), 8 (1993-94) 6 (2004). Squadron to 6 a/c when aircraft carrier has one Super Hornet squadron. S-3B removed when each carrier has two Super Hornet squadrons.
• 1990: ALQ-190 AIRBOC available.
• Early 90s: Fitted with Emitter Correlation Program (ECP) - ES recorded and used post-mission to plot radar locations (treat as ELS with information available in post-mission debriefing cycle).
• 1996-99: Four fitted with AGM-65F capability (VS-22 on Roosevelt), later two each to VS-31 and VS-32. Possibly fitted with ALE-47 vice ALE-39 decoys at this time (Counterm: 3rd Gen D).
• 1999-00: ASW & minelaying roles deleted, with UYS-1 and MAD removed. No longer carry torpedoes or DC. Retains 16 sonobuoy chutes for dispensing chaff (SLQ-39 chaff buoy and ALQ-190 AIRBOC). Of 8 a/c squadron 4 operate as tankers, 4 for ASuW and strike warfare.
• Mar 02-05: 40 a/c fitted with AGM-65E/F, AGM-84H/K SLAM/SLAM-ER w/AWW-13 guidance pod.
• April 2004 - Jan 09: Retired. Last Pacific coast unit deployment 2007.
• May 06: 13 fitted with LANTIRN on starboard u/w hp replacing one drop tank (not fitted to use laser designator) with CVW-1 for ship surface search. In service early 2007

[Northstar98]

While it would be good to get its ASW systems and stores (I'm very much in favour of that), there would need to be some core development before I request those. So I'd rather contain this thread to items that DCS can already support or weapons that already exist.

I wasn't aware of things like AIRBOC, that's pretty neat, though again, probably something we'd need to wait on core functionality for.

[Stackup]

+1

If a weapon is already in game that an aircraft should have access to, then that weapon should be added to that aircraft as soon as possible.  There's absolutely no reason not to.

[Northstar98]

The S-3B tanker unit just got released, but unlike the regular S-3B, it is instead depicted as a post 1998 S-3B (AN/ASQ-81 MAD removed and blanked over, 44 of the 60 sonobuoy chutes blanked over, though the sonobuoy reference system (4 small blade antennas on and near the main gear doors and under the wings are still present)).

If it was possible for the D-704 Sargent-Fletcher A/A42R-1 air refuelling store to be a loadout option (as it is IRL) and if it was present on both versions (as it should IRL) that would give us 2 variants of the S-3B:

• A pre 1998 version potentially covering the late 80s to late 90s (so appropriate for the Gulf War, our current Tomcats without LANTIRN, the F-14A-135-GR early and the last cruise of the Forrestal).
• A post 1998 version, potentially covering up to when the S-3B was fully retired from fleet service in 2007 (appropriate for the F/A-18C, our current Tomcats, and CVNs 71-75 of the SC module).

That means that the AGM-65F/E/E2, AGM-84H/K and AN/AAQ-25 LANTIRN ER are potentially on the table for the newer variant, providing of course buddy stores can be properly supported.

I'll mark stores unsupported in DCS in red.

The pre-ASW deconfiguration S-3B Viking ("S-3B") should be equipped with:

• 300 US gal Drop Tank (Aero-1D?)
• A/A42R-1 Air Refuelling Store
• ADM-141A TALD
• AGM-84D Harpoon Block IC (it probably retains compatibility with the current AGM-84A Harpoon Block IP, but the D is much more appropriate for the timeframe and has a far better model).
• *AN/ALQ-190 AIRBOC
• AN/SSQ-53B/C DIFAR (Passive-only Directional Frequency Analysis and Recording)
• AN/SSQ-62B/C/D DICASS (Active-only range & Directional Command Active Sonobouy System)
• AN/SSQ-77A/B VLAD (Passive-only Vertical Line Array DIFAR)
• CBU-59/B APAM
• CBU-99/B Rockeye II
• Hydra 70(?)
• Mk 46 NEARTIP Mod 5/5A/5A(S)
• Mk 50 Barracuda Mod 0 ALWT
• Mk 62 Quickstrike (Mk 82)
• Mk 63 Quickstrike (Mk 83)
• Mk 65 Quickstrike (2000-lb)
• Mk 82 500-lb LDGP
• Mk 82 Snake Eye
• Mk 83 1000-lb LDGP
• Mk 84 2000-lb LDGP
• Zuni

The post-ASW deconfiguration S-3B Viking ("S-3B Tanker") should be equipped with:

• 300 US gal Drop Tank (Aero-1D?)
• A/A42R-1 Air Refuelling Store
• ADM-141A TALD
• AGM-65E/E2 Maverick
• AGM-65F Maverick
• AGM-84D Harpoon Block IC
• AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER
• AN/AAQ-25 LANTIRN
• *AN/ALQ-190 AIRBOC
• AN/AWW-13 data link pod
• CBU-59/B APAM
• CBU-99/B Rockeye II
• Hydra 70(?)
• Mk 82 500-lb LDGP
• Mk 82 Snake Eye
• Mk 83 1000-lb LDGP
• Mk 84 2000-lb LDGP
• Zuni

*For the AIRBOC, while external chaff dispensers are implemented and supported for player aircraft, they aren't for AI (which can only use internal countermeasure systems integrated into the aircraft, aircraft that only have countermeasure pods in DCS will either have them treated as internal and always present (even when they might not be)) and chaff currently has no effect on AI radars or anti-ship missiles, which, AFAIK would be the intended use case for the AN/ALQ-190.

Edited January 1 by Northstar98
spelling, Mod 5A written twice - second mod 5 should read "Mod 5A(S)"

[Silver_Dragon]

S-3 as "Tanker", no sonoboys antennas.

S-3 "Pre-1988"

Edited October 26, 2023 by Silver_Dragon

[Stackup]

Here's an AGM-65F equipped S-3.

And here's a couple with what appear to be AGM-84D-1 but the one we have in game has a white nose cone.  The RGM-84s the ships get has the red nose though.  Does anyone know if there's a difference or were some just painted red?

[Northstar98]

8 hours ago, Stackup said:

And here's a couple with what appear to be AGM-84D-1 but the one we have in game has a white nose cone.  The RGM-84s the ships get has the red nose though.  Does anyone know if there's a difference or were some just painted red?

Not sure, AFAIK the only difference between the RGM-84D and AGM-84D is that the RGM-84D has a booster and folding control surfaces & fins. In any case, here's an AGM-84D without a red nose:

And here's an RGM-84D without a red nose:

[Vampyre]

The red radomes were training/test shots. Warshots had the light grey radomes.

[Northstar98]

23 minutes ago, Vampyre said:

The red radomes were training/test shots. Warshots had the light grey radomes.

Thanks!

Though, interesting - training/test shot with a live warhead and propulsion (I assume that's what the yellow band and brown bands are respectively on the missile)?

[Vampyre]

The brown band is for the live motor and the yellow band is explosive warhead. If it were inert it would have blue bands. We did a sinkex from Kaneohe Bay and our missile had a red radome. On cruise, the live rounds had grey radomes.

[Silver_Dragon]

Added others S-3 versions

S-3A Viking ASW Patrol
Man Rtng: 1.0/.5 Damage Value: 32
Size/Signature: Medium/Medium Bombsight: Manual

Counterm: None Inflight Refuel: P
Sensors: APS-116 radar, MAD, 2nd Gen FLIR, 2nd Gen ES, Link 11 data link, 60 sonobuoys, OL-82 sonobuoy processor

Throttle Setting/Speed in knots
Altitude Cruise Full Mil Reheat
Low: 350 440 --
Med: 350 450 --
High: 350 390 --
Ceiling: 12285 m Engine Type: TF
Cruise Range: 2350 nmi Int Fuel: 5964 kg

Additional Fuel Fuel Wt. Range Add.
300 USG drop tank 920 kg 425 nmi

Ordnance Loadouts: Payload: 4536 kg
• 2 drop tanks, 4 Mk46 Mod 2 or Mod 5 (1979) or Mod 5A(S) (1990)
• 2 drop tanks, 2 Mk46, 2 Mk54 DC or 1 B57 NDB
• 10 Mk36 or 10 Mk62 or 2 Mk52 or 2 Mk55 or Mk56 or 2 Mk60 or 2 Mk65 mines

Remarks: In Svc: Feb 74 - 1993
179 built, 119 converted to S-3B standard, 16 converted to ES-3A Shadow ELINT aircraft (see separate entry). Estimated loadout 40 SSQ-41A/B, 16 SSQ-53A/B and 4 SSQ-62A/B  Sonobuoys.
• US-3A: Six COD in service 1977 - 94. Can carry 5 passengers and 2100 kg cargo.

ES-3A Shadow ELINT
Man Rtng: 1.5/1.0 Damage Value: 32

Size/Signature: Medium/Medium Bombsight: None
Counterm: None Inflight Refuel: P

Sensors: APS-137(V)1 ISAR radar, 2nd Gen FLIR, 3rd Gen ES

Throttle Setting/Speed in knots
Altitude Cruise Full Mil Reheat
Low: 350 390 --
Med: 370 405 --
High: 350 405 --
Ceiling: 10760 m Engine Type: TF
Cruise Range: 2300 nmi Int Fuel: 5975 kg
Additional Fuel Fuel Wt. Range Add.
300 USG drop tank 920 kg 415 nmi

Ordnance Loadouts: Payload: 3175 kg
• 2 300 USG drop tanks
• 300 USG drop tank, 300 USG buddy store

Remarks: In Svc: Jan 93 - Sep 99
Secondary tanker role. Detachments of two aircraft deployed per aircraft carrier.
• Squadrons: VQ-5 (Guam Jun 93-Dec 94; North Island Jan 95-Jul 99), VQ-6 (Cecil Field, Jan 93-Feb 98; Jacksonville Mar 98-Sep 99)
• 1992-94: 16 converted from S-3A. First deployment in Apr 93.

Sonobouys procesors
OL-82
UYS-1

[GUINCHO]

Hola a todos

Alguien me puede decir porquè me es imposible aparecer dentro de la cabina 

Siempre salgo fuera de èlla y no puedo acceder al interior , obviamente hablo del S-3B

Gracias

[Silver_Dragon]

14 minutes ago, GUINCHO said:

Hola a todos

Alguien me puede decir porquè me es imposible aparecer dentro de la cabina 

Siempre salgo fuera de èlla y no puedo acceder al interior , obviamente hablo del S-3B

Gracias

El S-3B, no es un modulo pilotable en DCS World y no es posible pilotarlo.

Recomiento, que las preguntas en español, en la sección correspondiente del foro.
https://forum.dcs.world/forum/28-espanol/

[GUINCHO]

Hola

Vaya , pues es una pena , dado que serìa interesante fuera pilotable 

Gracias

[AvgeekJoe]

Count me in as wanting a Viking too!

[Northstar98]

This wishlist isn't really for a module (especially considering the Viking's primary role (at least prior to ASW deconfiguration) was ASW, something that's frankly as good as absent in DCS.

Here, I'm more concerned with getting the current AI S-3B's weapons corrected, fortunately all the weapons DCS supports are already present in-game, just not on the S-3B.

[Stackup]

On 2/1/2024 at 2:59 AM, Northstar98 said:

Here, I'm more concerned with getting the current AI S-3B's weapons corrected, fortunately all the weapons DCS supports are already present in-game, just not on the S-3B.

Well, they finally added AIM-9Js to the F-5E, so hopefully stuff like this will get corrected.  Preferrably sooner rather than later and definitely before the elusive "HD units pack" or whatever that turns out to be is released.  Although having said that, the CBU-52s have had the wrong textures since 2016 on the F-5E and despite now also appearing on the HB F-4E, which got a lot of new weapons and retextures for older ones, it still hasn't been fixed.  Stuff like this that should be simple fixes that would take maybe an hour at the most to fix instead get ignored or forgotten.

[Stackup]

Bump

At least in the meantime custom payloads can be altered to get most of the proper weapons onto the S-3.  It'll even fire them and hit the target.  One other thing that I think should be adjusted is that the CAS role should be added to further complement how the Vikings used the AGM-65 in combat and the fact that the Ground Attack role does not allow for the "attack group/unit" task.

LANTIRN and AGM-65E

AN/AWW-13 and AGM-84H

AGM-84D

[Northstar98]

Now that the higher quality models have been released, I wanted to bump this.

Excluding an ED AAQ-25 (though is externally identical to the AN/AAQ-14 ED are supposed to be developing for the F-16), the missing stores that DCS support are all already present in-game, for both variants.

While some weapons technically only apply to the tanker version, ED could, as a stop-gap, either enable weapons that only came with the 2002 Maverick Plus upgrade (even though the regular S-3B is no later than 1998) or make a new unit by duplicating the S-3B tanker model, remove the air refuelling store and the permanently equipped drop tank and give the weapons to that.

Then when buddy stores are properly supported (i.e. as a loadout option) the S-3B tanker can be deprecated and then both S-3Bs can receive the buddy store.