Gun confidence

[McGraw]

I don't really have any confidence in the gun*

*other than as pilot with auto ranging, that seems to be reasonable at close range.

I've messed around in back/front seat, coop and with George (HMD and TADS of course)

In any range below 3.5k, moving or hovering.

It just seems to draw a circle around whatever I'm shooting at and I have a good head tracker plus same happens in TADS

The gun is hard work

Give me some tips please (I've been flying since early days and I've never felt like the gun was going to get close). Thanks

Edited October 22, 2023 by McGraw

[Hootman9104]

Do you have "Zoom" mapped on your HOTAS? I find that sometimes zooming in helps a bit. And of course, boresighting but I'm not so sure of how much that makes a difference.

I like to stay on the move while engaging the enemy, generally 60-80 knots, and when engaging with the gun I fly to the right or left of the target as I pass so can look down through the canopy as I pass, and I generally begin firing by aiming at a spot before the target as I'm passing by, keeping head still and thus allowing the forward motion of the aircraft to spray a line of bullets just  before the target and right on through it, which usually results in good hits.

With > being direction of acft, and * being bullets:

>>>>>>*****[TARGET]*****>>>>

So that way you can pretty much hold your head still and just let the acft motion draw that line of bullets before, though, and after the target.

Sitting at a hover and trying to hit something is certainly harder, and in that scenario, nothing helps but practice, and the first few shots tell you if you're firing short or long. I rarely manually adjust the range; I just judge whether I'm short or long and use "Kentucky windage." 

In reality the bullets are "mini grenades", the M789 round is designed to fragment upon impact, with the steel projectile body providing the shrapnel, unless it hits armor and then think the shaped charge provide the penetrating capability. The lethal radius against unprotected, standing targets is about 5 ft (1.5 m), so with infantry I kind of just do a little circular motion with my head (TrackIR) which is usually close enough to deal with them, and light unarmored vehicles, so firing from a hover is easier (but still difficult) for those types of targets when accuracy isn't as crucial.

Of course, with light armored vehicles it pretty much requires a direct hit, if it isn't a direct hit the crew probably just hears a lot of plinking of the shrapnel hitting the armor. So with armored vehicles I use the fire during pass method.

So to me, the firing method depends on the target, and firing on the move is the best bet for lightly armored vehicles, and also is my preferred method for infantry as well. 

[Gunfreak]

Remember DCS doesn't have great splash damage. Making bombs guns and particularly rockets less effective against light targets such as infantry.

The 30mm rounds should take out infantry well even if left they "make a circle" around the target.

I always assumed new splash damage and ground units accuracy would get a proper update with the release of apache. But apparently not.

[Tepnox]

You could try to learn from some real life footage from Afghanistan:

This gun is simply spray and pray. I found it interesting that some Taliban survived close proximity impacts of these rounds and a second gun run was needed to deliver peace for good.

As for improving skills: try to train the leading of the bullets when flying sideways to the target in comparison to the crosshair. When using the gun as a pilot I always use the default 1500 m manual range and trained the distances visually in comparison to the crosshair. Helps the consistency practicing over time.

I play in VR so it is very easy to compensate the gun for movement and corrections in general - I assume this will be alot harder with a TrackIR device. Good luck.

[bradmick]

It’s super easy with track ir, it’s what I use. The gun is a nail driver when employed with proper technique. I did a video on this.

[QuiGon]

On 10/22/2023 at 2:25 AM, McGraw said:

I don't really have any confidence in the gun*

*other than as pilot with auto ranging, that seems to be reasonable at close range.

I've messed around in back/front seat, coop and with George (HMD and TADS of course)

In any range below 3.5k, moving or hovering.

It just seems to draw a circle around whatever I'm shooting at and I have a good head tracker plus same happens in TADS

The gun is hard work

Give me some tips please (I've been flying since early days and I've never felt like the gun was going to get close). Thanks

 

The Apache gun is reffered to as an Area Weapon System (AWS) for a reason. Check this real life combat video where you can see how the gun rounds often land quite offset from where the gunner was aiming:

So it's not a bug, it's a feature.

[bradmick]

That video isn’t a good representation of the guns capability, because the gunner used poor technique. 

[Caldera]

McGraw,

I find the gun to be really accurate, from both the front and the back seats. 

Some things I have learned when shooting from the front seat:

• Have the laser on when firing
• Switch on LMC after the reticle is steady on target to be most accurate (also compensates for aircraft movement?)
• Wait a few moments before firing after the reticle is steady on target (allows range information to be better computed?)
• Shoot under 2800 meters (max range some where around 3000 meters?)
• Shoot at least 10 rounds
• Aim for the knees on infantry

Hope this helps,

Caldera

 

[McGraw]

Thanks all.

there’s nothing here I don’t already know in principle it’s just that my results are so inconsistent.

Head tracked gun runs on auto range work fine. Tads shots seem much less accurate and it even seems like setting auto range works better than lmc and lazing 

On 10/23/2023 at 12:30 PM, bradmick said:

That video isn’t a good representation of the guns capability, because the gunner used poor technique. 

Please elaborate thanks

[SloppyDog]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:41 PM, McGraw said:

Please elaborate thanks

I believe BradMick was refering to this:

 

He is one of ED's SMEs and his videos on the Apache are invaluable. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by SloppyDog

[McGraw]

Right I've watched these vids and reapplied everything and even though I didn't think I was doing anything different, I seem to be more accurate now.

Thanks all

[pii]

On 10/22/2023 at 6:52 PM, Tepnox said:

I play in VR so it is very easy to compensate the gun for movement and corrections in general - I assume this will be alot harder with a TrackIR device. Good luck.

No Problem at all with TIR.