dlder Posted October 26, 2023 Posted October 26, 2023 I've been tinkering around with the new options and so without further ado: setting everything to max (incl. LOD to 2) is no performance issue in 2D (3440x1440) with 55,5 fps avg. (Marianas, as this seems to be most taxing when doing a low level flight): Spoiler Average framerate : 55.5 FPS Minimum framerate : 50.4 FPS Maximum framerate : 72.0 FPS 1% low framerate : 50.6 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 49.8 FPS With DLSS set to Quality, this number went up to a whooping 84,1 fps! Spoiler Average framerate : 84.1 FPS Minimum framerate : 73.4 FPS Maximum framerate : 115.3 FPS 1% low framerate : 73.9 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 72.3 FPS But DLAA introduces shimmering artefacts, most notable with a fuzzy HUD! And thus DLSS (which forces DLAA) is pretty much unusable: VR is a lot more taxing though, so I reduced visibility to High and 2*MSAA, with everything else is still maximum and I get 39,7 fps with QuadViews (meaning DFR (dynamic foveated rendering)): Spoiler Average framerate : 39.7 FPS Minimum framerate : 33.5 FPS Maximum framerate : 59.3 FPS 1% low framerate : 33.3 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 32.2 FPS DLAA didn't improve the FPS at all for whatever reason, but the good news is: it's not effecting the HUD!! -> most likely, DLAA isn't working in VR and DCS falls back to MSAA? Spoiler Average framerate : 38.3 FPS Minimum framerate : 32.2 FPS Maximum framerate : 58.8 FPS 1% low framerate : 32.1 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 30.3 FPS Though this means one can use DLSS in VR! This improves the FPS to 43,6! It's not much, but this is with "DLSS quality" + I've everything on max like LOD and trees + I'm on Marianas: Syria or even Caucasus will have a much better performance! Spoiler Average framerate : 43.6 FPS Minimum framerate : 36.4 FPS Maximum framerate : 67.5 FPS 1% low framerate : 36.1 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 35.3 FPS Unfortunately there are still some problems for VR users: SSS (Screen Space Shadows) looks kinda ... "off" or wrong. I personally had to disable that, as the tree shadows looked a bit like "flickering shaders" (I aint no programmer, so I can't describe it any better) DLSS + DFR do not work well together! DFR seems to be a bit too hard for DLSS to work with, because there are noticeable visual artefacts when moving the eyes around. (I'll try to get a video of that). The Performance with DFR off and DLSS on is quite comparable though with 39,3 fps (vs. 39,7 with DFR): Spoiler Average framerate : 39.3 FPS Minimum framerate : 35.9 FPS Maximum framerate : 50.8 FPS 1% low framerate : 35.5 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 30.9 FPS I hope this is interesting for some folks and let's all hope the deep-learning for DLSS will get better in time and be thus more usable for 2D as well as with Dynamic Foveated Rendering, because any one of those technologies makes this game playable with a high-resolution HMD like the Crystal, but combined, it's just a pure joy to play DCS especially with maximum graphical settings! Cheers! OpenXR-Switcher: to easily switch OpenXR runtimes as well as en-/disable API layers Kneeboard-Picture-Viewer: my own take on a Kneeboard for a 2nd monitor, that acts more or less as a better picture viewer. F-15CX mod: my own take on a simple F-15C upgrade English Avionics with Native Betty: you can now have English HUD on non US planes and still hear the native Betty!
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted October 26, 2023 ED Team Posted October 26, 2023 Hi, thank you for the feedback, we are working on the issues you have mentioned internally and we will have some fixes out soon. Regarding shimmering can I confirm you are using the sharpening slider? at around 0.6 on my 3090 using DLAA or DLSS shimmering is minimal. thank you 2 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
Hiob Posted October 26, 2023 Posted October 26, 2023 @dlder There are some misconceptions in your post though. DLSS doesn't force DLAA. Those are two sides of the same underlaying technology but mutual exclusive. That is why it is greyed out when you use upscaling. Also, DLAA works perfectly fine in VR. Much better than MSAA did. It isn't meant to improve fps though. (Also it does, compared to MSAA 4x). 1 1 "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"
Solution dlder Posted October 26, 2023 Author Solution Posted October 26, 2023 (edited) Wow that was fast... there was just a DCS update (2.9.0.47168 Graphics. Some graphical options can be changed in the simulation without affect to picture: Anti-Aliasing, Flat Shadows Blur, SSS - fixed Graphics. Screen Space Shadows with DLSS cause Shadow issues - fixed MP. The new rotor wash effect is not visible other clients - fixed Graphics. DLSS. FC3 aircraft HUD blurs with rapid movement - fixed I'm gonna test again tomorrow to see what's what. Edited October 26, 2023 by dlder added the version OpenXR-Switcher: to easily switch OpenXR runtimes as well as en-/disable API layers Kneeboard-Picture-Viewer: my own take on a Kneeboard for a 2nd monitor, that acts more or less as a better picture viewer. F-15CX mod: my own take on a simple F-15C upgrade English Avionics with Native Betty: you can now have English HUD on non US planes and still hear the native Betty!
dlder Posted October 26, 2023 Author Posted October 26, 2023 7 hours ago, Hiob said: DLSS doesn't force DLAA That seems very doubtful. Because even if you selected MSAA with Upscaling off, as soon as you select DLSS, DLAA gets activated too (and greyed out, so you can't change it). 7 hours ago, Hiob said: It isn't meant to improve fps though Well, DLAA as I understand it is a shade based anti-aliasing, just like TAA and thus has a WAY smaller performance impact (if any). So it SHOULD give better performance. About the same performance as no AA at all. 7 hours ago, BIGNEWY said: Hi, thank you for the feedback, we are working on the issues you have mentioned internally and we will have some fixes out soon. Regarding shimmering can I confirm you are using the sharpening slider? at around 0.6 on my 3090 using DLAA or DLSS shimmering is minimal. thank you As per the update, the HUD problem is GONE. DLAA/DLSS (tested both individually), there is no more shimmering HUD, no matter the sharpening slider. The sharpener does make the HUD look better though; not so... thin/slightly washed out (I've tried with 0.75 just for the sake of it) Gonna try SSS in VR tomorrow OpenXR-Switcher: to easily switch OpenXR runtimes as well as en-/disable API layers Kneeboard-Picture-Viewer: my own take on a Kneeboard for a 2nd monitor, that acts more or less as a better picture viewer. F-15CX mod: my own take on a simple F-15C upgrade English Avionics with Native Betty: you can now have English HUD on non US planes and still hear the native Betty!
Hiob Posted October 26, 2023 Posted October 26, 2023 54 minutes ago, dlder said: That seems very doubtful. Because even if you selected MSAA with Upscaling off, as soon as you select DLSS, DLAA gets activated too (and greyed out, so you can't change it). I wasn't speculating. This stuff can be researched online. Just go to the Nvidia homepage or wikipedia if you don't believe me. "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"
Nedum Posted October 27, 2023 Posted October 27, 2023 12 hours ago, dlder said: Well, DLAA as I understand it is a shade based anti-aliasing, just like TAA and thus has a WAY smaller performance impact (if any). So it SHOULD give better performance. About the same performance as no AA at all. DLAA uses much more information (depth buffer, brightness, etc.) as TAA to eliminate shimmer and flicker, so DLAA hits the performance a little harder as MSAA x 2 and much harder as TAA. My AA-test (before the Hotfix): TAA = ~5 % FPS decrease / much less shimmer / adds ghosting and blur MSAA x 2 = ~10 % FPS decrease / still shimmer / no ghosting, no blur DLAA = ~13 % FPS decrease / no shimmer / adds a kind of ghosting like "Phoenix flames" around fast moving objects and blur (but much less as with TAA) 1 CPU: AMD Ryzen 7950X3D, System-RAM: 64 GB DDR5, GPU: nVidia 4090, Monitor: LG 38" 3840*1600, VR-HMD: Pimax Crystal, OS: Windows 11 Pro, HD: 2*2TB Samsung M.2 SSD HOTAS Throttle: TM Warthog Throttle with TM F16 Grip, Orion2 Throttle with F15EX II Grip with Finger Lifts HOTAS Sticks: Moza FFB A9 Base with TM F16 Stick, FSSB R3 Base with TM F16 Stick Rudder: WinWing Orion Metal
Hiob Posted October 27, 2023 Posted October 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Nedum said: DLAA uses much more information (depth buffer, brightness, etc.) as TAA to eliminate shimmer and flicker, so DLAA hits the performance a little harder as MSAA x 2 and much harder as TAA. My AA-test (before the Hotfix): TAA = ~5 % FPS decrease / much less shimmer / adds ghosting and blur MSAA x 2 = ~10 % FPS decrease / still shimmer / no ghosting, no blur DLAA = ~13 % FPS decrease / no shimmer / adds a kind of ghosting like "Phoenix flames" around fast moving objects and blur (but much less as with TAA) I have the suspicion that DLAA works best with higher FPS (so the higher the FPS the less smearing), which makes sense to my little monkey brain, given how it is supposed to work. But I couldn't find any hard evidence or official statements on this. So it is just speculative. All I can say is, it works beautifully for me. I have very little drawbacks noticed (I have seen the "phoenix flames" from position lights) but the picture quality gives me eye-gasms every time. "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"
dlder Posted October 28, 2023 Author Posted October 28, 2023 Did a few more tests (same graphic settings as before), without DFR though, as it's quite hard to keep your eyes fixed to the front^^ VR no QuadViews, DLAA, DLSS Quality, LOD = 2 Low Latency = Off, PreRendered = 4 = 37,9 fps Spoiler Average framerate : 37.9 FPS Minimum framerate : 34.6 FPS Maximum framerate : 47.4 FPS 1% low framerate : 29.8 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 29.6 FPS VR no QuadViews, DLAA, DLSS Quality, LOD = 2 Low Latency = Ultra, PreRendered = 1 = 38,4 fps (a bit more interesting though is the difference in low frame rate though, because that is no "measuring inaccuracy") Spoiler Average framerate : 38.4 FPS Minimum framerate : 35.0 FPS Maximum framerate : 48.3 FPS 1% low framerate : 34.4 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 33.8 FPS And here are my results between the DLSS quality levels; and quite honestly, without "looking for it", even Ultra Performance looks... "normal". Maybe when playing and using it more plus looking for differences, the lower rendered resolution would get more noticeable, but it is actually usable, which I didn't think it would. Quality = 38,4 fps Balanced = 41,3 fps Performance = 43,8 fps Ultra Performance = 48,9 fps Spoiler Average framerate : 38.4 FPS Minimum framerate : 35.0 FPS Maximum framerate : 48.3 FPS 1% low framerate : 34.4 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 33.8 FPS Average framerate : 41.3 FPS Minimum framerate : 37.8 FPS Maximum framerate : 53.9 FPS 1% low framerate : 36.9 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 36.0 FPS Average framerate : 43.8 FPS Minimum framerate : 39.4 FPS Maximum framerate : 56.9 FPS 1% low framerate : 38.6 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 37.9 FPS Average framerate : 48.9 FPS Minimum framerate : 43.7 FPS Maximum framerate : 67.0 FPS 1% low framerate : 43.1 FPS 0.1% low framerate : 41.8 FPS @BIGNEWY I'm still curious about the AntiAliasing that is used with DLSS though. If it's automatically disabling DLAA (as in every other game it seems; I've never used DLSS though), will AA be forced to off or to MSAA? Would be sweet if it would "show" in the AA option; because right now its grayed out to "DLAA", which is apparently not used, so it should be set to whatever IS used, wouldn't you agree? Cheers, Hotshot OpenXR-Switcher: to easily switch OpenXR runtimes as well as en-/disable API layers Kneeboard-Picture-Viewer: my own take on a Kneeboard for a 2nd monitor, that acts more or less as a better picture viewer. F-15CX mod: my own take on a simple F-15C upgrade English Avionics with Native Betty: you can now have English HUD on non US planes and still hear the native Betty!
Roosterfeet Posted October 28, 2023 Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) With my RTX 4070, 2D at 2560x1440, sharpening 0.5, I've found that TAA produces less ghosting than DLAA and less shimmering than MSAA 4x and with better performance than both. For me TAA at 1440 seems like the sweet spot image quality wise for now. Just thought I would contribute a data point. Update: My initial impression in the cockpit was that TAA produces noticeably less ghosting than DLAA on MFDs in particular. After putting some hours in, I've found lots of places where TAA produces massively more ghosting than DLAA, particularly in external views. I'm going to try DLAA for a while; I suspect that the overall result will be superior despite a little MFD weirdness. Edited October 30, 2023 by Roosterfeet 1 5800x3D, rtx4070, Quest3 (sometimes)
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