Enable zoom axis control for 9k113 sight

[alek321]

PetroAI can find and identify targets way outside of missile range, but when one jumps into the front seat quickly learns that 9k113's x10 mode is just slightly more zoomed in that normal view max zoom. Player CPG has no chance performing anywhere near PetroAI in spotting and identifying department.

Being able to zoom in just as in all the other cockpit views would improve how CPG plays.

[admiki]

Well, you can't really compare Raduga's 10x with Apache's 127x for TV and 36x thermal (don't know the stats for the Shkval, but I figure it's more advanced). Are you asking for something completely unrealistic to level out the playfield?

As for identifying, unless you go for easy IFF or whatever it's called, most of the times I can IFF quicker than Petro.

In final score (accounting for IFF and guideance for LOS), semi competent multicrew is better than solo with Petro. Competent crew is just unbeatable.

[randomTOTEN]

1 hour ago, alek321 said:

Player CPG has no chance performing anywhere near PetroAI in spotting and identifying department.

Working just fine here...

[alek321]

2 hours ago, admiki said:

Are you asking for something completely unrealistic to level out the playfield?

Not really about levelling out the playfield, but an unrealistic camera view functionality like in every other cockpit view.

Edited November 10, 2023 by alek321

[alek321]

2 hours ago, randomTOTEN said:

Working just fine here...

Do you even bother to go into the sight for the extra 0.5x(?) and huge optics shadow to find the manpad petroAI sees from 10km?

2 hours ago, admiki said:

Well, you can't really compare Raduga's 10x with Apache's 127x for TV and 36x thermal (don't know the stats for the Shkval, but I figure it's more advanced).

I don't play Apache so unsure, but you do maintain your view controls and ability to zoom in your in-game camera on screen, no?

[randomTOTEN]

Preload Radius 60000. SA-24S Igla-S. Broad daylight, standing alone in an empty field.

First Petrovich Igla AI detection 9.86km, I can't see it using the 10x zoom.

First Player (Me) Igla visual detection 6.46km.

65% of the Petrovich detection range.

3400m difference, probably dependent on my settings. 1400m outside of the F10 displayed max detection radius.

Missile Launch approximately 2.85km (took 2 seconds to find the pause key). 28% of Petrovich range, 44% of my visual identification range.

Make your own conclusions.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by randomTOTEN

[WinterH]

Actual fix would be reining petro in so he is down to human levels, not introducing a magical extension of Raduga's optical capabilities.

I know people scream "please make Hind's optics like that on new Gazelle implementation", but honestly, as it is on Gaz, it allows player to zoom further when looking into the sight, and artificially improve it's magnification, quite significantly at that.

[admiki]

OK, now I do understand what OP wants. I don't fly Gaz, so don't know how it's sight is working, but this would be completely unrealistic. 

[alek321]

13 hours ago, randomTOTEN said:

Make your own conclusions.

Conclusion is that PetroAI is insanely overdone with its magical IFF and ability to tell arms type in unit's hands at 10km, and you spotted 6 pixels at 2/3 of his range.

On the other hand 9k113 offers almost nothing to improve the ability to spot units, bar +0.5x, massive image mask, and stabilisation to player in that seat.

x10 optic is quite a nice magnification scope in every other aplication, but not in hind.

5 hours ago, admiki said:

OK, now I do understand what OP wants. I don't fly Gaz, so don't know how it's sight is working, but this would be completely unrealistic. 

Yup, the unrealistic ability to focus in-game camera field of view on a piece of equipment or a feature just like it is possible on every single other dcs module or a flight sim, is what hind's CPG is missing.

[admiki]

25 minutes ago, alek321 said:

Conclusion is that PetroAI is insanely overdone with its magical IFF and ability to tell arms type in unit's hands at 10km, and you spotted 6 pixels at 2/3 of his range.

On the other hand 9k113 offers almost nothing to improve the ability to spot units, bar +0.5x, massive image mask, and stabilisation to player in that seat.

x10 optic is quite a nice magnification scope in every other aplication, but not in hind.

Yup, the unrealistic ability to focus in-game camera field of view on a piece of equipment or a feature just like it is possible on every single other dcs module or a flight sim, is what hind's CPG is missing.

His magical IFF? Try it on realistic and see how well it goes.

Problem is, in all these examples here, you are looking at screen. In Hind, you have to look into periscope, you can't zoom in on it. You need to put your eye on it, that's just how it works IRL. Now, what we could ask for is to be able to lean into the scope, but trust me, it gets uncomfortable real fast.

[alek321]

21 minutes ago, admiki said:

His magical IFF? Try it on realistic and see how well it goes.

Nitpicking. PetroAI keeps getting nerfed every other patch, because it is bonkers, but at least its changes are in a sensible direction.

21 minutes ago, admiki said:

Problem is, in all these examples here, you are looking at screen. In Hind, you have to look into periscope, you can't zoom in on it. You need to put your eye on it, that's just how it works IRL. Now, what we could ask for is to be able to lean into the scope, but trust me, it gets uncomfortable real fast.

I'm not asking for ability to lean into sight. Nor am I asking for a change to magnification of the 9k113, but for the x10 optic to have some positive impact to spotting when playing CPG role.

Periscope or screen doesn't really matter, it is just a game viewport with its camera fov controlls enabled or not.

I get it that adding the zoom axis is ultimatelly increasing effective magnification of the sight beyond the x10, but meanwhile we're all happy flying around with everything else with our zoom-eyes with magnification of up to x9.5. That's your typical binoculars magnification amount btw.

Edited November 10, 2023 by alek321

[randomTOTEN]

hmm

So Petrovich can hold a pair of binoculars in his hands at 9.5x and look in any direction.

Or he can look at his periscope, which is hard mounted to the aircraft at 10x, and look gyro stabilized with limited pan and zoom. But this awkward inferior setup guides ATGM.

It seems like a fair implementation to me...

Edited November 10, 2023 by randomTOTEN

[admiki]

It has. According to you it has an impact of x0.5. I don't fly with zoom-eyes around, so it has larger impact to me, about 10 times.

[alek321]

1 hour ago, admiki said:

It has. According to you it has an impact of x0.5. I don't fly with zoom-eyes around, so it has larger impact to me, about 10 times.

So why do you bother if it is a function you'd not use anyway? It would be there not affecting you at all, because you don't zoom in much, and those who think that gyroscoping binoculars should improve seeing further would.

Did you try 9k113 in vr? Correct as is too isn't it?

[MAXsenna]

OP, what's your display size? And, you should rather show the periscope sight for the Gazelle, because that would be a better comparison, andnot the Vivane. Anyway, in both cases in the Gazelle, there's really no need for that extra zoom because it gets real hard flying in single player.  

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Edited November 10, 2023 by MAXsenna