Feedback Thread AJS-37 Viggen Patch November 2023

[IronMike]

Dear all,

the recent patches contain only minor fixes, but as always we would kindly like to ask you for your feedback.

The slowdown in patches for the F-14 and Viggen are due to us undertaking a more holistic approach in order to make both aircraft beneficiaries of various new features introduced with the F-4, but we'll be aiming to ship various changes and fixes in the December patch before some of these features make their way back into the aircraft. Thank you all for your very kind patience, for your continued kind support and feedback!
 

DCS AJS-37 Viggen by Heatblur Simulations

• Fixed RB-04 buddy-blast

[Glowingheat]

I guess you guys know the Viggens gear wheels are submerged underground still?

[Rudel_chw]

11 minutes ago, Glowingheat said:

I guess you guys know the Viggens gear wheels are submerged underground still?

well, so much for asking for "very kind patience" 

[Otulf]

Hello!

I think that there should be some sort of priority to a module that have been in early access since 2017. 

I do understand that F-14, for example, is a more popular aircraft among many in the DCS community and that there is a great anticipation for the F-4 as well.

But as a customer I really think that bug fixes for the Viggen module  should be a bit more of a priority. 

It feels like the Viggen module hav been put to a lower priority for some time concerning bug fixes.

( I do of course understand that bux fixes do not generate income/revenue like a new release of a module).

I am REALLY looking forward to the December patch and HOPE that at least this bug, with "submerged" wheels, will be fixed!

For me the Viggen module is my absolute favorite module! I have not used the Viggen module since the bug with "submerged wheels" started. It is most annoying!

 

Best regards:

Otulf

[Rudel_chw]

4 minutes ago, Otulf said:

I am REALLY looking forward to the December patch and HOPE that at least this bug, with "submerged" wheels, will be fixed!

if not, you can revert dcs to version DCS 2.8.8.43704, where this bug is not present.

[Unprogress]

Heya,

i cannot bind the Clickable mouse cockpit mode to my mouse, field is greyed out. All other aircraft work

[Glowingheat]

On 11/19/2023 at 9:56 AM, Rudel_chw said:

if not, you can revert dcs to version DCS 2.8.8.43704, where this bug is not present.

Yes but if you play particular multiplayer servers, you can't join unless you use the up-to-date version of open beta.

Main reason I posted is that there have been a couple of updates since this bug appeared and nothing has changed on the Viggen. 

I agree, after 6 years, it really should get some priority and be finished within the realms of the current game version.  Clearly ED making changes can break things, but to be in 'early access' since 2017, without any end in sight - its a bit frustrating - what else is in the pipeline for this module, I read about new sounds, new effects, new textures - I've lost track of wether these have been implemented. As far as I am aware, not implemented.

On 11/18/2023 at 10:18 PM, Rudel_chw said:

well, so much for asking for "very kind patience" 

At least two updates since this bug appeared - I've been patient, it's been out 6 years and is still in early access and things are mentioned, but never delivered - new sounds, new textures - but never much in the way of progress any more.  It feels like the ugly child, unloved and uncared for , while the new baby (F-14)  gets all the toys, and the new pregnancy (F-4)  gets all the attention.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, Glowingheat said:

Yes but if you play particular multiplayer servers, you can't join unless you use the up-to-date version of open beta...

 

Ahh  .. one more advantage for Single-play ... I tried MP for a whole year, yes it has its goodies ... but for me its downsides were way more, I returned to SP after that bitter year, and never looked back  ... now I play whatever version of DCS I want, pause the game whenever I want, and fly according to my preferences and no one else's.

Hopefully Heatblur will understand that the upcoming Kola map can mean greater interest on the Viggen, so they could at the very least fix the few remaining bugs (at least the more notorious ones), place an "out of EA" sticker on the box, and reach an agreement with ORBX for a bundle Kola Map + Viggen ... 

[Glowingheat]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:37 PM, Rudel_chw said:

 

Ahh  .. one more advantage for Single-play ... I tried MP for a whole year, yes it has its goodies ... but for me its downsides were way more, I returned to SP after that bitter year, and never looked back  ... now I play whatever version of DCS I want, pause the game whenever I want, and fly according to my preferences and no one else's.

Hopefully Heatblur will understand that the upcoming Kola map can mean greater interest on the Viggen, so they could at the very least fix the few remaining bugs (at least the more notorious ones), place an "out of EA" sticker on the box, and reach an agreement with ORBX for a bundle Kola Map + Viggen ... 

Agreed!

The main draw for Multiplayer is the unpredictability of your opponent, but since there's not many red force high fidelity jets, its all not quite so realistic as it might otherwise have been.

[Ramius007]

Lack of "home" for Viggen is likely one of biggest issues making it less popular, but for me definitely will be very high on wishlist when Kola map arrives, cant wait for road landings in the snow!

[Rudel_chw]

25 minutes ago, Ramius007 said:

Lack of "home" for Viggen is likely one of biggest issues making it less popular

 

IMHO the Viggen will always be less popular, for once the US seems to be the most numerous users group for DCS, followed by Russia, UK, France and Germany, and most of those users logically prefer to fly their own country aircrafts. Besides, from browing the Forums, it seems that most users prefer modern aircrafts, with easier to use sensors, displays and weapons, instead of older aircrafts with traditional navigation instruments, primitive sensors, and weapons that require more skill to deploy. 

So, even with Kola available, I don't really expect a large increase in Viggen users, tough hopefully I will be proven wrong   ... in fact, for me the fact that a Viggen was actually developed for DCS is nothing short of a miracle, and I truly hope that Heatblur got a reasonably good return for their investment 

 

[Schmidtfire]

53 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

  ... in fact, for me the fact that a Viggen was actually developed for DCS is nothing short of a miracle, and I truly hope that Heatblur got a reasonably good return for their investment 

Fun fact. Viggen was developed for several years as a closed mod by a group in a Swedish community before being absorbed into Heatblur. The project was not started with commercial viability in mind, but they always aimed for the quality of an official module. Another fun fact was that they also worked on a Swedish map to go along with the Viggen. But the idea was scrapped for unknown reasons.
Kola map will be a nice addition

Edited November 29, 2023 by Schmidtfire

[Rudel_chw]

23 minutes ago, Schmidtfire said:

Fun fact. Viggen was developed for several years as a closed mod by a group in a Swedish community before being absorbed into Heatblur. The project was not started with commercial viability in mind, but they always aimed for the quality of an official module.

 

@Cobra847 once showed this image, stating that the development lasted for 4 years (pre-EA that is, as technically the Viggen is still in development)

 

 

Also, I remember seeing some videos by @RagnarDa showcasing development with the un-textured viggen, but can't find them anymore

 

[Ramius007]

I agree it will never get same love as F-teens for obvious reasons, unless F-teens would be broken, and of course it's not the case, but I still belive Kola map boost Viggen massively, I think a lot of people dont consider buying "homeless" planes, even f they have interest in them, reasons are not having really realistic setup and more importantly implied from this limited content.  I m thinknig abotu next module after FC3, got Syria map, but it's really hard to even think about buying Viggen with current maps we have in game. Possible that right now Viggen is in worst spot for those reasons, and I really miss some sort of Baltic map, supprised it's not in development, preety much 80 years of realistic and fictional but possible scenarios. Kola will be first map that allow cold war going hot without raising eyebrows

[Msiipola]

Do any know the time tabell of the Kola map?

[Amarok_73]

About two patches ago I saw a some post about significantly degraded anti-ship weaponry efficiency, which was probably taken down because it revealed that all this "improving the realism of weapons" is some kind of grim joke.
So naively hoping that issues with anti-ship missiles described in that post was just some bugs possibly repaired in more recent patches, I did some tests and... well.. Rezky requires 3 RB-15s, Moscow needs over 8, while after following two salvos the next ones don't even try to reach the target, getting lost somewhere along the way in the test scenario... After several more attempts, I gave up, and didn't even tried to check what fractions of percents I can cause damage with my once-beloved-now-just-patheticaly-puny RB-15s to the Kuznietsov.
Yeah... I remember when it was explained to me on this subforum that in "real" Viggens attacks fleets in hordes counting dozens of planes, but the DCS reality is unfortunately not so colorful, and finding two wingmen ready to participate in antiship crusaide always was quite the challenge but possible and now such attempt can only trigger empty laughter in enemies in place of hitherto alert and anxiety.

Sad to see what was pretty accurately and vividly was described by the @Glowingheat that Viggen becomes "the ugly child, unloved and uncared for, while the new baby (F-14) gets all the toys, and the new pregnancy (F-4) gets all the attention".

Yeah, I can hear the HB fanboys scream "shut up and go buy F-4!" - unfortunately I did it already. XD

RB-15 no-more-fun.trk

[Zabuzard]

About two patches ago I saw a some post about significantly degraded anti-ship weaponry efficiency, which was probably taken down because it revealed that all this "improving the realism of weapons" is some kind of grim joke.
So naively hoping that issues with anti-ship missiles described in that post was just some bugs possibly repaired in more recent patches, I did some tests and... well.. Rezky requires 3 RB-15s, Moscow needs over 8, while after following two salvos the next ones don't even try to reach the target, getting lost somewhere along the way in the test scenario... After several more attempts, I gave up, and didn't even tried to check what fractions of percents I can cause damage with my once-beloved-now-just-patheticaly-puny RB-15s to the Kuznietsov.
Yeah... I remember when it was explained to me on this subforum that in "real" Viggens attacks fleets in hordes counting dozens of planes, but the DCS reality is unfortunately not so colorful, and finding two wingmen ready to participate in antiship crusaide always was quite the challenge but possible and now such attempt can only trigger empty laughter in enemies in place of hitherto alert and anxiety.
Sad to see what was pretty accurately and vividly was described by the @Glowingheat that Viggen becomes "the ugly child, unloved and uncared for, while the new baby (F-14) gets all the toys, and the new pregnancy (F-4) gets all the attention".
Yeah, I can hear the HB fanboys scream "shut up and go buy F-4!" - unfortunately I did it already. XD
RB-15 no-more-fun.trk

It is a difficult topic as the way DCS handles damage, especially in this situation, limits what we can do on that front.

Ultimately, what we have now is a compromise to make the damage results somewhat fair and realistic among all the ships, small or large.
For example, it was not okay that you could previously sink an entire carrier with just two missiles.
We can't define the damage on a per-ship level and have to find a damage value that works well for all the ships, not too many and not too few missiles roughly. It is hard to find a balance that works good for both of the two extremes (small and large ships) at the same time.

In fact, the community and modders helped us tweak these values with extensive tests and the tables have been posted in our Discord.

I get your point about it being difficult to find a fleet of 4 Viggens to fly a proper attack on a server. Please understand though that we are trying to create a realistic simulation and not a well balanced competetive multiplayer game.

What you are describing regarding the missiles missing their targets sounds like a bug to me, that is not intended.

[Amarok_73]

9 minutes ago, Zabuzard said:

For example, it was not okay that you could previously sink an entire carrier with just two missiles.

Taking in account, how much effort and luck it required to get through Fleet Defender F-18s circling around like vultures, waiting for the 37 to appear on RWR, shoot the "15s" and pray to live long enough to give'em chance to try to get through the defending CIWS of escort ships and carrier itself, while being the only one devoted to Viggen on the server? Naaah, I don't feel it was as easy job as it seems at glance.
Anyway, being familiar with lua scripting, I'd be grateful and more than happy to get a hint if it is possible then if so, how to tweak RBs just a little just for use at least in missions played on our squadron's server.

[Zabuzard]

10 hours ago, Amarok_73 said:

Anyway, being familiar with lua scripting, I'd be grateful and more than happy to get a hint if it is possible then if so, how to tweak RBs just a little just for use at least in missions played on our squadron's server.

Sure, the weapon damage is defined in

CoreMods\ajs37\Entry\Weapons.lua around line 207 where it says warhead["Rb15"]

[Amarok_73]

Thank You very much @Zabuzard for all the help.

All the best in 2024!