TeTeT's Vietnam War Vessels

[TeTeT]

4 hours ago, Beldin said:

As far as I can tell there are still a few issues to be worked out with the Bon Homme Richard to make her ready for player aircraft.

I agree that the player controlled aircraft needs more testing to see where it fails. For the initial release I did test the A-4, F/A-18 and F-14 and they worked for take-off and landing. Not quite sure what works now, besides the A-4... Room for testing, if anyone is interesting, drop me a DM!

Cheers,
TeTeT

[Beldin]

I need to update to the new red hull so I’ll check take off and landing with the F-8 tonight once I do that

[TeTeT]

1 hour ago, Beldin said:

I need to update to the new red hull so I’ll check take off and landing with the F-8 tonight once I do that

The F-8 under player control does unfortunately not work on carriers. I tried with CVA-31 and Forrestal and got the same results on both. If you figure out how to make the plane compatible, let me know!

 

[Beldin]

48 minutes ago, TeTeT said:

The F-8 under player control does unfortunately not work on carriers.

 

48 minutes ago, TeTeT said:

I tried with CVA-31 and Forrestal and got the same results on both.

Hmmm. Well I've only tried the F-8 on CVA-31 so I'll  check the ship with another aircraft. But very curious to see how the F-8 behaves on the Forrestal. I did not know there was even an issues with the F-8 and carriers. I just assumed the problem was with CVA-31 after I flew through the deck while trying to land. . But I'll see if I can figure it out  

[Beldin]

Good news is that the A-4 and F/A-18 Lot 20 can both take off and land from CVA-31. I only tested runway start but parking hot should work.

F-8 should be able to land but I never did hook a wire, only crashes and bolters, but it also may not be able to hook up. It will spawn on the deck/catapult just fine but is unable to hook up to the shuttle. If the issue is what I think it is there is unfortunately no quick fix so I'd consider the F-8 an AI asset with limited player capabilities for now 

[Montykoro]

Epic! Thanks so much for the time and mod

[EA-18G_BlockII]

it seems the MiG-17 as static object is immortal? cant destroy or even damage it at all  @TeTeT

[TeTeT]

2 hours ago, EA-18G_BlockII said:

it seems the MiG-17 as static object is immortal? cant destroy or even damage it at all  @TeTeT

Thanks for the report, there's indeed something weird. When I shoot with a ZU at the cockpit area / nose, the shots go through. When I fire at the dead center the hits register and it eventually blows up. Some screens from the testing. Any ideas what might be wrong anyone?

 

Fire at the nose passes through, to the right is one that I shot at center.

 

Hits register here:

 

Cheers,
TeTeT

[Beldin]

I have a video to share showing off some of the VWV ships and aircraft.

Hope you enjoy

 

[Andrew8604]

Thanks for the angled-deck Essex carriers.  I don't know if you're aware... Intrepid, Ticonderoga and Hancock had a slightly different flight deck design.  The starboard elevators of these three were farther aft than the others, with a little bit extra flight deck area forward of those elevators.  Somewhat like this graphic I made up from modified screenshots.

Also...

Intrepid (11), Ticonderoga (14), Lexington (16), Hancock (19), Bon Homme Richard (31), Oriskany (34) and Shangri-La (38) all had the longer C-11 steam catapults and jet-blast deflectors.  They were designated CVA's to operate faster, heavier modern jet aircraft.

Essex (9), Yorktown (10), Hornet (12), Randolph (15), Wasp (18), Bennington (20), and Kearsarge (33) all had the shorter H-8 hydraulic catapults.  They were designated CVS's to operate propeller-driven anti-submarine aircraft and helicopters.  And I think these were all without the bridle catchers...the deck extensions in front of each catapult.

Lake Champlain (39) was also a CVS but never got the angled flight deck and hurricane bow.  It had the SCB-27A with H-8 catapults and the updated island and no twin 5-inch turrets, but no SCB-125 with the angled flight deck and hurricane bow.

Blue model (below) on the left = Intrepid CVA-11, Ticonderoga CVA-14 and Hancock CVA-19

Yellow model on the right = Lexington CVA-16, Bon Homme Richard CVA-31, Oriskany CVA-34 & Shangri-La CVA-38.   Also, if you shorten the catapults to 198 ft of shuttle travel (150 ft power stroke) and remove the bridle catchers from the front edge of the flight deck, plus shorten the forward elevator, the model should be good for: Essex CVS-9, Yorktown CVS-10, Hornet CVS-12, Randolph CVS-15, Wasp CVS-18, Bennington CVS-20 and Kearsarge CVS-33.

H-8 hydraulic catapults could launch 15,500 lbs dead weight to 105 knots in 150 feet, in 1.69 seconds resulting in about 3.25 G's acceleration. 

C-11 steam catapults have a 225 ft long track and could launch 39,000 pounds at 156 mph (136 knots) or 70,000 pounds at 124 mph (107.5 knots) in 211 feet.

Edited May 14, 2024 by Andrew8604
Add note about bridle catchers and catapult details.

[TeTeT]

5 hours ago, Andrew8604 said:

I don't know if you're aware...

Thanks Andrew, I've read about the different sub-classes of Essex carriers, but we have no model to support the CVS species, the different elevator position, or the straight deck earlier version. So for now we have to stay with this one presentation of Essex class carriers of the Vietnam War era. Knowing my own deficiencies when it comes to modeling, I'll make no promises if we've ever include those variants. But thanks for raising awareness!

[Slippa]

On 4/4/2024 at 9:01 PM, TeTeT said:

And blasting Rock'n'Roll out of those speakers  Those monitors with the PBR make a nice combo indeed! Just need some VC/NVA and Gis running around then!

I've been looking for the PBR myself. I have them moored to the floating dock but I can't find the PBR individually in the ME anywhere.

Any suggestions would be great. Never get outta the boat, absolutely god damned right, unless you were goin all the way .

Edited May 11, 2024 by Slippa
typo

[TeTeT]

59 minutes ago, Slippa said:

I've been looking for the PBR myself. I have them moored to the floating dock but I can't find the PBR individually in the ME anywhere.

The floating dock is part of Vietnam Asset Pack, which was released in conjunction with the OH-6A by Tobsen and Eightball. The PBR MkII has been released as sailable ship in this mod here, Vietnam War Vessels. Have you installed VWV? Do you see the PBR MkII icon in the main menu screen?

[Slippa]

Aha, therein lies the problem .

Suitably ashamed, for the life of me I couldn't work it out. I've found it now thanks, just installing and checking it now... and...

Yep PBR Streetgang's on the water. Brilliant.

Thanks for the pointer and of course, for the work.

[Beldin]

On 4/16/2024 at 3:20 AM, fixedit said:

Could the F-8 be scaled up like 40%? She seems a lil small on deck.

Not sure about that? The thing is freaking huge, lol. Increasing the size would almost certainly affect the number of F-8s the flight deck on CVA-31 can handle.

 

On 4/16/2024 at 11:12 PM, roobarbjapan said:

Will you be fixing the French Fox-1 placement? Sorry the missile name escapes me but currently they float above the wings. A few versions back when the US version had the sparrow this wasn’t an issue.

 I could not find any pictures of the French F-8 with missiles on wing pylons. The French Fox 1s were mounted on a pylon on the lower fuselage. 1 on each side. If you can provide a picture I can add them to the wings. I had done a version with them mounted on the lower sidewinder pylon but that's as close as I could get without changes to the model. Also I don't believe the USN F-8 ever carried sparrows. But while I've never seen that mentioned in any reference material or pictures I did recurrently see what appeared to be a F-8 with 2 sparrows mounted underneath the fuselage in a documentary about carriers. But unfortunately there are no connectors on the model in that location so it's not a quick thing to add.     

[Beldin]

17 hours ago, Andrew8604 said:

Intrepid (11), Ticonderoga (14), Lexington (16), Hancock (19), Bon Homme Richard (31), Oriskany (34) and Shangri-La (38) all had the longer C-11 steam catapults and jet-blast deflectors.  They were designated CVA's to operate faster, heavier modern jet aircraft.

Here's a good breakdown on the Essex class refits.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/usnshtp/cv/scb27cl.htm and http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/usnshtp/cv/scb125cl.htm

[Andrew8604]

4 hours ago, Beldin said:

Here's a good breakdown on the Essex class refits.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/usnshtp/cv/scb27cl.htm and http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/usnshtp/cv/scb125cl.htm

Darn!  The links don't work for me.  "page not found".  I tried searching that site for SCB-27 but it didn't come up with much.

Do I have anything wrong?  I think I've got a pretty good breakdown from searching wikipedia.  I know that's not always the best source, but it seems pretty good in this case.

SCB-27, first applied to the Oriskany (which delayed its commissioning until 1950), gave the following major upgrades to the Essex Class:

Reenforced flight deck, larger stronger elevators, stronger hydraulic H-8 catapults, stronger Mk-5 arresting gear, replaced all 40mm gun mounts with twin 3-inch/50 mounts, removed the four twin 5" mounts from the flight deck, shortened the island, redesigned the boiler uptakes and replaced the mast with a single larger one, replacing the "short bow" so that all the ships had the similar, longer clipper bow.  And there were other internal upgrades, including moving pilots' ready rooms to below the armored hangar deck and providing an escalator to bring them up to the flight deck more quickly.  In the movie "Bridges at Toko-Ri", you see Oriskany and Kearsarge in about 1954, in their SCB-27A configuration launching F9F-2 and -5P Panther jets with their H-8 catapults, and Mk-5 arresting gear, as well as operations of HO3S-1 helicopters and AD-4 Skyraiders, which were operational squadrons aboard at the time.

These upgrades were applied to 8 ships after Oriskany from 1951 to 1953.  These were the SCB-27A's.  They all still had straight flight decks, though.  In 1954, three further ships were upgraded with the SCB-27C, which replaced hydraulic catapults with new, more powerful, steam C-11 catapults, plus jet blast deflectors and starboard deck edge elevators that were moved farther aft (for some reason), and nuclear stores handling and a few other upgrades.  These 3 (Intrepid, Ticonderoga and Hancock) still had straight flight decks, though.  In 1955, the last 3, Lexington, Shangri-La and Bon Homme Richard received their SCB-27C along with SCB-125 (the years indicated being when work was completed).

SCB-125, first applied to Lexington, Shangri-La and Bon Homme Richard and then to the SCB-27A and 3 previous -27C ships was as follows:

Angled flight deck, enclosed hurricane bow, mirror landing system, Mk-7 arresting gear, Primary Flight Control moved to aft end of island, air conditioning, No.1 (forward) elevator lengthened (on -27C ships only), and No.3 (aft) elevator moved from centerline to starboard deck edge (except for the first three -27C's which already had the more aft deck-edge elevators in place).   At some point, bridle catcher extensions were added to the -27C ships (and Oriskany).  The -125s were completed on all -27A ships, except Lake Champlain, by 1955-57, and the other three -27C ships by 1957.  Oriskany was last to receive the angled flight deck -125 with some further upgrades.  Aluminum flight deck cladding, Mk-7-1 arresting gear, and C11-1 steam catapults, as well as the lengthened No.1 elevator; completed in 1959.

There were still 9 Essex class ships that did not receive -27/-125 upgrades.  2 of them were the Bunker Hill and Franklin, which were both heavily damaged in WWII.  While they were both repaired, they never saw additional service.  As a kid, I cruised past Bunker Hill a few times in the early 70's on the San Diego Harbor Excursion tour boats.  Boxer, Princeton and Valley Forge were CVS's and then became LPH's for helicopters in '59 & '61 and used through the late 60's.  Antietam received the first angled flight deck in 1952 but became a CVS in '53.  It became the training carrier in the late 50's until being replaced in that role by Lexington in about '62, I think.  Tarawa, Leyte & Philippine Sea were used as straight-deck CVS's until decommissioning around '58-'59.  Most of these last 6 were Korean War veterans.

Lexington, Yorktown, Intrepid and Hornet are preserved as museums.  I just saw Lexington at Corpus Christi, Texas, earlier this year.  Oriskany is an underwater reef off Pensacola, FL.  All the others have been scrapped.  

[Beldin]

Not sure why the link is not working. I didn't mean to imply you were incorrect, the link just had a nice list of what ships got exactly what updates. This link seems to be the same info and should work

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/OnlineLibrary/photos/usnshtp/cv/scb27cl.htm

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/OnlineLibrary/photos/usnshtp/cv/cv9cl.htm

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/OnlineLibrary/photos/usnshtp/cv/scb125cl.htm

Edited May 12, 2024 by Beldin

[Andrew8604]

On 5/11/2024 at 10:36 AM, TeTeT said:

Thanks Andrew, I've read about the different sub-classes of Essex carriers, but we have no model to support the CVS species, the different elevator position, or the straight deck earlier version. So for now we have to stay with this one presentation of Essex class carriers of the Vietnam War era. Knowing my own deficiencies when it comes to modeling, I'll make no promises if we've ever include those variants. But thanks for raising awareness!

TeTeT, 

Did you make this carrier 3D model?  I there any chance I could try to work on modifying one?  What software did you use the make it?

[TeTeT]

1 hour ago, Andrew8604 said:

TeTeT, 

Did you make this carrier 3D model?  I there any chance I could try to work on modifying one?  What software did you use the make it?

No, the lineage of the model is described in the README on https://github.com/tspindler-cms/DCS-Essex , in short:

karla created the Bon Homme Richard for IL-2 1946, NightIntruder and I modified it for Arma 3 usage, Odyseus improved the Arma 3 model. 

We use Blender to modify the carrier further, it can be downloaded from blender.org but you need version 3.6.x for using Tobsen's EDM exporter.

I do not share the model freely, but if you're interested to contribute, feel free to learn 3d modeling and rigging and join the team, by all means! I will recommend to start with something much smaller in scope and size, though. I've written up my experience with getting the P4 Torpedo Boat into the game here: https://forums.mudspike.com/t/how-to-get-a-boat-into-dcs/15854

Cheers,
TeTeT

[TeTeT]

Hello,

The team of Vietnam War Vessels is wrapping up another release: 0.5.0. We hope it will be available soon, if there are no last minute critical issues found. As apetizer some screens from Whiplash:

 

 

 

 

[EA-18G_BlockII]

have you fixed the MiG-17's issue?

[TeTeT]

3 hours ago, EA-18G_BlockII said:

have you fixed the MiG-17's issue?

No, unfortunately not - after a certain distance (maybe 100 meter) only the center of the static aircraft seems to register hits, neither nose nor tail. It's unknown to me and the team what might be causing this issue.

[Andrew8604]

Is it already reported that it seems that whenever the A-4E is in contact with the deck of CV-31, it's registering "hits" and "bda" on the carrier?  I'm worried that if I do my 3 cat-shots and traps, I might sink her. 

Also, I encountered a situation in "U" connecting to the cat where it bounced my A-4E on its tail and damaged the engine, which failed after a minute or less.  I was slightly ahead of the shuttle and pressing U backed me up a bit, but my feet were on the brakes.  I think that's what happened.  Of course, I'm not sure that doesn't happen on other carriers with the A-4E.

BTW, it would be cool if you could make both a 1964 and 1944 version of Maddox.  A 1944 version should be good to model as any of dozens of Sumner-class destroyers like Maddox, in the WWII time period.  One problem is that there were several different modifications to the Sumner class over the years.  1. During WWII, removal of one of the quintuple 21" torpedo mounts to add a quad 40mm mount.  2. Post WWII removed 20mm mounts and replace 40mm mounts with a pair of twin 3"/50 mounts.  Replace single mast with tripod mast and heavier radar antennas.  One depth charge rack removed, and two hedgehog mounts added.  That's probably how they would have been for Korean War era.  3. FRAM II modification in 1960-65, which removed the 3"/50 guns, the 21" quintuple torpedo mounts and added a hangar and landing platform for the DASH ASW R/C helicopter and triple torpedo tubes.  Maddox did not get the FRAM II modifications, so it probably looked like it did around the Korean War, or possibly with some new radar antennas added.  Its midships quintuple 21" torpedo mount was replaced with a pair of 12.75" torpedo triple-tube launchers, though.  USS Brush, DD-745 might be another configured the same as Maddox in the 60's.

[Beldin]

1 hour ago, Andrew8604 said:

Is it already reported that it seems that whenever the A-4E is in contact with the deck of CV-31, it's registering "hits" and "bda" on the carrier?  I'm worried that if I do my 3 cat-shots and traps, I might sink her. 

I've never seen that. I need to recheck my "bda" settings. BUt if player aircraft are causing damage there should be a lua fix for that