Recommended sound card?

[braden]

Hi all,

really happy with my gaming pc, though it seems on the net that having a decent sound card can/may help FPS somewhat. I never seem to go below 30fps in black shark, but even a couple of extra fps would help that overall sensation of silky smoothness.

 

At the moment i just have a Creative Labs SB Audigy SE in my machine.

 

I am happy to spend bucks on a decent one that does proper hardware processing etc...

ive just not found what one to go for from my research on the net so far...reviews seem to contradict each other.

 

It will be for Vista64, core2duo e8600, 6gb, 2x evga gtx+ 9800, evga 790 motherboard

 

would love to hear what u think i should get (if anything)

 

thanks - have a nice day

[S77th-RYKE]

creative sucks , still haven't gotten over the loss of support for my 6.1 speakers on my audigy 2 ZS

 

7 freakin speakers only 3 want to work with Vista

 

so make sure you research first and find something that will work with your set up .

[Lav69]

Just go with onboard sound then you know you won't have compatibility issues. And a sound card doesn't offer any better sound now-a-days than onboard sound on current MoBo's.

[Safari Ken]

Just go with onboard sound then you know you won't have compatibility issues. And a sound card doesn't offer any better sound now-a-days than onboard sound on current MoBo's.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly. Even my Creative Audigy Gamer, circa 2001, sounds drastically better than the onboard sound on either of my current motherboards (circa 2006 and 2008 respectively). I don't care how "HD" the marketing hype says the sound is, onboard sound sucks noodles.

 

That said, that Audigy is 8 years old . The only good sound card solution right now, at least the one that blows everything else out of the water, is Creative X-Fi. Just don't get the cheapest one (the one under $100), and you'll love the sound. Especially with headphones; it's stunning how good the surround sound through normal headphones is.

 

It used to be that X-Fi cards didn't work too well under Linux or Vista. Now the Vista problems have been sorted out, and I understand there are decent Linux drivers as well.

 

X-Fi ftw, no question. Makes my headphones sound like my 5.1 computer speakers; makes my computer speakers sound like my big home theater speakers; makes my home theater speakers sound so good that I can't even come up with a good analogy to describe it. :music_whistling:

[Lav69]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Even my Creative Audigy Gamer, circa 2001, sounds drastically better than the onboard sound on either of my current motherboards (circa 2006 and 2008 respectively). I don't care how "HD" the marketing hype says the sound is, onboard sound sucks noodles.

 

That said, that Audigy is 8 years old . The only good sound card solution right now, at least the one that blows everything else out of the water, is Creative X-Fi. Just don't get the cheapest one (the one under $100), and you'll love the sound. Especially with headphones; it's stunning how good the surround sound through normal headphones is.

 

It used to be that X-Fi cards didn't work too well under Linux or Vista. Now the Vista problems have been sorted out, and I understand there are decent Linux drivers as well.

 

X-Fi ftw, no question. Makes my headphones sound like my 5.1 computer speakers; makes my computer speakers sound like my big home theater speakers; makes my home theater speakers sound so good that I can't even come up with a good analogy to describe it. :music_whistling:

 

That explains why almost no major custom computer builders on the market today place sound cards in their boxes. Seems to reason if they offered such better quality sound that it would be wise marketing to put them in gaming boxes. But they don't. :thumbup:

[Washer UK]

I had onboard HD and bought a Creative X-Fi. I can confirm that it does sound better, not quite as good as my Naim setup tho!

[Safari Ken]

That explains why almost no major custom computer builders on the market today place sound cards in their boxes. Seems to reason if they offered such better quality sound that it would be wise marketing to put them in gaming boxes. But they don't. :thumbup:

 

It seems like if a customer computer builder didn't put a sound card in your computer, perhaps you should have asked for one ("custom"). And boutique builders have other priorities to deal with, like competition and profit margins and whatnot. A sound card is not all that glamorous, and certainly isn't going to sell a system for them like the newest video card or CPU will, so why not just charge the same price and leave it out?

 

When I built this computer, I gave into the hype of my nice motherboard, and thought I'd save some cash and use the onboard sound. It had been a few years, I figured, so maybe the quality had improved. That experiment lasted for about 6 hours (until I booted up iTunes, basically) before I dug an old PC out of the closet and grabbed the Audigy inside. Massive improvement.

 

I used the Audigy until I got my new X-Fi (I decided to leave the old X-Fi in its current computer, which is now hooked up in the living room as a media server, making movies sound delicious), and the new X-Fi is a further great improvement over the Audigy.

 

Frankly, I'm stunned that anyone could listen to pretty much ANY sound card next to onboard sound, and actually choose the onboard. And I mean, I'm not even what you'd call an audiophile, but the sound quality isn't even close, at least on the two or three mobos I've tried onboard. It seems analogous to telling someone "You like movies? Ah, just go for VHS, it's fine. Same movie, right?" or "Go ahead and use the onboard video. That's what it's there for!" :smilewink:

 

But to each his own; I'm not trying to argue with you. I would just never, ever suggest to anyone to use onboard sound, at least for quality reasons. There may be other factors, like a lack of PCI or PCI-E slots, or maybe they can't afford the extra cash right away, or something.

[Silent Warrior]

Safari Ken: Decent X-Fi-drivers for Linux?? Dude, you have a bit of a homework to do! It IS true that there are WORKING drivers - that is to say, X-Fi owners get sound, but that's about as good as those drivers are going to get, it seems... Creative should be OK in Windows, but if there's any plans involving Linux - no-no!

 

To OP: I don't really know about Auzentech, but they're using X-Fi circuitry and at least in the distant past confessed some ambition of having working Linux-drivers. Perhaps something to look into, if only for ethical reasons?

 

Also, regarding onboard sound: At the moment I'm writing from my mother's laptop, carrying some Conexant wossname. When I tried to play some recording or other it sounded perfectly awful - I first thought it was the speakers not handling the strain, but it turns out the soundcard just didn't support 24-bit sound. Fail! My, what, five years old X-Fi-card runs 24-bit just dandy...

[Safari Ken]

Well, yeah, I haven't had Ubuntu installed for more than a year. At the time there were NO drivers for the X-Fi (and a lot of other stuff too). A buddy told me there were nowadays, but I'm not surprised to hear you say that they're not impressive.

[RedTiger]

@Safari Ken

 

As someone who has had both good sound cards and used on-board sound, I can confirm that sound cards do indeed sound better, but in my opinion not so much as to make one required if the end-user isn't planning on having a complex speaker arrangement. I have placed sound cards firmly in the "mix/max" category because it is very much for those who want to min/max and want the best performance even if it isn't the best bang for the buck. The system I'm using right now I built a year ago. It was the first computer I'd ever built. I didn't install any sound card and do not plan to for the next one I'm going to build. For my 9 or 10 year old Yamaha 2.1, I just didn't feel it was necessary and it allowed me to save some cash for a better video card.

 

PC games and movies sound perfectly fine. With 2.1, the sound a hell of a lot better than a regular TV's speakers (can you tell that I have no interest in home theaters? ;) ), and that's perfectly fine by me.

[braden]

Well, yeah, I haven't had Ubuntu installed for more than a year. At the time there were NO drivers for the X-Fi (and a lot of other stuff too). A buddy told me there were nowadays, but I'm not surprised to hear you say that they're not impressive.

 

does blackshark run under ubuntu?

 

anyho, back to my original question, has anyone experienced any noticable PERFORMANCE gain having a good sound card V.S. cheapo OR onboard?

 

call me weird, im not so interested in the sound quality at this point, only got good set of 2.1 speakers and they sound great.

[PoleCat]

X-FI Fatality. Excellent card in either PCI or PCI-E. Under Vista or XP.

 

Out

[Lav69]

It seems like if a customer computer builder didn't put a sound card in your computer, perhaps you should have asked for one ("custom"). And boutique builders have other priorities to deal with, like competition and profit margins and whatnot. A sound card is not all that glamorous, and certainly isn't going to sell a system for them like the newest video card or CPU will, so why not just charge the same price and leave it out?

 

When I built this computer, I gave into the hype of my nice motherboard, and thought I'd save some cash and use the onboard sound. It had been a few years, I figured, so maybe the quality had improved. That experiment lasted for about 6 hours (until I booted up iTunes, basically) before I dug an old PC out of the closet and grabbed the Audigy inside. Massive improvement.

 

I used the Audigy until I got my new X-Fi (I decided to leave the old X-Fi in its current computer, which is now hooked up in the living room as a media server, making movies sound delicious), and the new X-Fi is a further great improvement over the Audigy.

 

Frankly, I'm stunned that anyone could listen to pretty much ANY sound card next to onboard sound, and actually choose the onboard. And I mean, I'm not even what you'd call an audiophile, but the sound quality isn't even close, at least on the two or three mobos I've tried onboard. It seems analogous to telling someone "You like movies? Ah, just go for VHS, it's fine. Same movie, right?" or "Go ahead and use the onboard video. That's what it's there for!" :smilewink:

 

But to each his own; I'm not trying to argue with you. I would just never, ever suggest to anyone to use onboard sound, at least for quality reasons. There may be other factors, like a lack of PCI or PCI-E slots, or maybe they can't afford the extra cash right away, or something.

 

I have no problem not having a sound card and have the means to install one if I so desired. There isn't that much of gap in the quality. You are going over board.

 

But like you said, "to each his own" - no matter how twisted someone gets it. :thumbup:

[shadowze]

Dont know which one to recommend just

DONT GET AN XFI , they are shite

 

Mine makes a lovely paperweight!

[AlphaInfinity]

does blackshark run under ubuntu?

 

anyho, back to my original question, has anyone experienced any noticable PERFORMANCE gain having a good sound card V.S. cheapo OR onboard?

 

call me weird, im not so interested in the sound quality at this point, only got good set of 2.1 speakers and they sound great.

 

This is a great question. Can ANYBODY find a benchmark that shows that a dedicated sound card will provide a performance increase on games.

[PoleCat]

Dont know which one to recommend just

DONT GET AN XFI , they are shite

 

Mine makes a lovely paperweight!

 

Yes well my 4 high end sytems all running X-FI fatality Pro sound cards (Both PCI and PCI-E versions) work excellent under XP/32 and VIsta 32/64 as well as windows 7. PCI or PCI-E they are pretty much trouble free for all the gaming boxes I build to sell as well. EAX, 7.1 etc. Of course this assumes you know what the hell you are doing when it comes to hardware as well. Do you? What else you got that is as good in this price range anyway?

 

Furthermore they are widely accepted as one of the best gaming SPU's out there. You may have had trouble but the vast majority of users prefer CL over the competition. The X-Fi are pretty much todays standard for gaming.

 

Out

Edited March 28, 2009 by PoleCat

[PoleCat]

This is a great question. Can ANYBODY find a benchmark that shows that a dedicated sound card will provide a performance increase on games.

 

All good quality sound cards (Creative X-fi etc.) are better then ANY on board solution period. A good sound card handles almost all processing on the card while on board solutions almost always lean on your CPU.

 

Get an X-FI Fatality and you will hear the difference for yourself. I build and sell systems for a living and I can tell you first hand that on board solutions are all pretty much inferior to a good <100USD X-Fi gaming card. In fact I would bet even the last generation Audigy 2 is better then most/all of the on board solutions on most current mother boards.

 

"Why should I get a soundcard when my Motherboard has onboard sound?

 

I would say onboard sound is basically a marketing tactic used by motherboard manufacturers to sell an all-in-one solution. These soundchips undoubtedly have come along way since the first onboards, and would be fine for a basic office or home, but they still do not stand up to a quality add-in PCI card for many reasons.

 

Onboard sound chips need to use CPU cycles to process sound. This robs your sytem of performance. If your sound chip has EAX which alot of them do these days the issue is compounded usually degrading your performance somewhere in the area of 5-15 FPS in games. This is usually the reported number of FPS that users report getting when then install a PCI sound solution. This is not the worst issue though."

 

But my onboard sounds fine to me?

 

Of course if a user has been using their soundchips for quite a while, the ear gets used to the less than stellar sound quality boasted by onboard sound chips. When a user installs a PCI solution they are literally blown away by the sound quality. They report hearing things in games and music that previously was not noticable. Once a user is used to a PCI sound card they can hear the deficiencies inherent to onboard sound chips and will never use one again. They sound very cold and sterile. DSP effects are usually overwhelming and washed out. These chips have no qualities usually associated with good sound, so alot of times the user will not know what they are missing until they hear it. You will need a set of decent speakers to be able to hear the difference however. $10 speakers won't cut it.

 

Now over the years various companies have released onboard sound chips that have tried to get over these issues. Connecting to the bus in different ways so they don't use CPU cycles etc. In terms of sound quality they are still lacking. All in all that's what we all want, I could care less about other things as long as I have great sound quality. People spend so much time building up there video subsystems, studying and reading about the best video components, but then they have an older onboard sound card connected to small multimedia speakers. Very sad indeed. If they invested half the time researching audio as they spent on video they wouldn't be using onboard sound. They would be using at least an entry level soundcard with surround sound speakers. Modern games are productional masterpieces with equal attention paid to audio as well as video. Without this hardware you're only getting half of what the game developers wanted you to experience. Sound is definitely an important part of all modern games. Indeed most new games contain EAX, surround sound support and directional audio, all used to make your game more enjoyable. Unfortunately all are limited by the sound hardware you have.

 

So the choice is up to you, and the question becomes:

 

Why wouldn't you replace your onboard with a quality PCI/PCI-E sound card? ;) By ROBSCIX (Quote taken from guru3D forums)

 

Out

Edited March 27, 2009 by PoleCat

[BlackTalon]

Do I need to spend 100 bucks to get a good sound card or can I buy one in the 70 dollar range?

[shadowze]

Yes well my 4 high end sytems all running X-FI fatality Pro sound cards (Both PCI and PCI-E versions) work excellent under XP/32 and VIsta 32/64 as well as windows 7. PCI or PCI-E they are pretty much trouble free for all the gaming boxes I build to sell as well. EAX, 7.1 etc. Of course this assumes you know what the hell you are doing when it comes to hardware as well. Do you? What else you got that is as good in this price range anyway?

 

Furthermore they are widely accepted as one of the best gaming SPU's out there. You may have had trouble but the vast majority of users prefer CL over the competition. The X-Fi are pretty much todays standard for gaming.

 

Out

 

Yes , I do know what Iam doing (Iam an Electronics engineer for a living - I get paid quiet well for my knowledge of electronic/computer/software systems)

 

The XFI hardware is well designed

The driver support is not so good (god forbid you might want to use linux)

Their uninstallers are pretty crap also leaving stuff scattered all over your system.

Creatives attitude does defy logic sometimes ( like when user hacked their drivers to improve functionality and was hounded for his troubles - they probably should have hired him)

 

As regards a performance difference between onboard / XFI , its not noticeable at all.

[braden]

thanks for the further info.

 

my original question was due to reading an article sometime ago (i havent been able to track it down again yet), stating that certain soundcards, including SOME X_FI cards...still do a lot of processing in software and therefore dont gain you much at (if) all from a performance perspective.

 

therefore im trying to eliminate which ones they are, before i plonk some cash down

[Lav69]

As regards a performance difference between onboard / XFI , its not noticeable at all.

 

BINGO! :thumbup:

[PoleCat]

Yes , I do know what Iam doing (Iam an Electronics engineer for a living - I get paid quiet well for my knowledge of electronic/computer/software systems)

The XFI hardware is well designed.

 

Yes it is.

The driver support is not so good (god forbid you might want to use linux).

 

Driver support was shaky at one time but is much better now and I don't use linux for gaming sir.

Their uninstallers are pretty crap also leaving stuff scattered all over your system..

 

You are a software engineer and get paid well as you point out. I can handle the driver installs and uninstalls without much issue (even manually cleaning up if needed) and I am a lowly technician and network admin.

 

Creatives attitude does defy logic sometimes ( like when user hacked their drivers to improve functionality and was hounded for his troubles - they probably should have hired him).

 

Sounds like your last experience with CL drivers etc was quite a while ago. Most all works pretty good at this time, even dummy proof auto updating.

 

As regards a performance difference between onboard / XFI , its not noticeable at all.

 

I stand behind your right to be completely wrong on this point. Best of luck to you and any one who takes this bad advice from you. ;)

 

Out

Edited March 28, 2009 by PoleCat

[815TooCooL]

Uhh.. Having used Audigy, Onboard, and now X-Fi extremeMusic, there are no performance differences between them.

In Music and other shooter game, yes, X-Fi is quite better but for simulation(BS), virtually no difference and they sounds almost same.

BS is so so in sound and I think I don't need some fantastic sound. It's ok.

You should check other components to enhance performance for your PC.

[PoleCat]

Uhh.. Having used Audigy, Onboard, and now X-Fi extremeMusic, there are no performance differences between them.

In Music and other shooter game, yes, X-Fi is quite better but for simulation(BS), virtually no difference and they sounds almost same.

BS is so so in sound and I think I don't need some fantastic sound. It's ok.

You should check other components to enhance performance for your PC.

 

On crappy speakers you may not hear the difference. But even without this consideration an add in sound card is better. Always yielding better sound and often yielding a marked improvement in FPS on many games/sims. This is not opinion, it is factual widely held knowledge.

 

If you do not have the money or the desire to buy one that is fine but it does not change the fact that onboard is inferior to a good quality add-in sound card.....always.

 

Out

[hannibal]

If YOu have XP, i highly recommend any Creative X-Fi Sound Cards,

 

If you have VISTA, I would stay away from any creative sound cards...

Because you will need to use the Alchemy legit HAX.

even with this legit HAX, i still didnt hear audio properly.

 

i was so surprised to hear a sonic boom on LO flaming cliffs using the X-Fi xtremem music, after i reinstalled to XP (getting away from VISTA)...because i wasnt able to hear this on X-FI on VISTA...

 

also i was going crazy not being able to adjust the surround levels of the X-Fi On VISTA ( YES I WAS ON GAME MODE ALSO USING ALCHEMY)

 

X-FI thumbs up on XP, thumbs down on VISTA