JDAM Toss - Any helpful strategies?

[durka-durka]

Hello all. Anyone have good workable tactics for tossing JDAMS from low-level?  I'm trying to avoid a SA-15 as much as possible. Still working out some ideal tossing parameters.  I've tried the 4g pull-up at 8mi, but I get pretty high there. What's a good distance to start gaining altitude for the toss?

[Nealius]

I've only gone up against SA-2s and -3s so far, but the fatter the bomb the more range you can get, so I go with GBU-31s. Direct mode instead of AUTO. 550-560kts on the deck, 4~4.5G pull at around 5.5nm, as soon as my pitch hits 35 degrees I toss and immediately peel off. At release I'm still at about 3,000ft AGL and 4.4nm from the target though. Not sure what my apex is since my head is looking at everything except the HUD at that point.

For SA-15s I'd just stay high and plink them.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Nealius

[durka-durka]

9 hours ago, Nealius said:

I've only gone up against SA-2s and -3s so far, but the fatter the bomb the more range you can get, so I go with GBU-31s. Direct mode instead of AUTO. 550-560kts on the deck, 4~4.5G pull at around 5.5nm, as soon as my pitch hits 35 degrees I toss and immediately peel off. At release I'm still at about 3,000ft AGL and 4.4nm from the target though. Not sure what my apex is since my head is looking at everything except the HUD at that point.

For SA-15s I'd just stay high and plink them.

 

Thanks for the info. I'll try this out and see what I'm able to do.  I did notice in my previous testing that with GBU-31s, you really don't have to go all that high.  In most instances, it would just be best to go above their range, but there are other SAMs in the area to be aware of as well.

 

[Nickkerkwijk]

On 12/16/2023 at 3:49 AM, durka-durka said:

Hello all. Anyone have good workable tactics for tossing JDAMS from low-level?  I'm trying to avoid a SA-15 as much as possible. Still working out some ideal tossing parameters.  I've tried the 4g pull-up at 8mi, but I get pretty high there. What's a good distance to start gaining altitude for the toss?

Is it me or does it look like the loft is not really added yet? Iirc if you go fast* in a Hornet and pull up the timer for release drops down fast, but it looks like the timer in the F15E doesnt work likt that yet

[Rainmaker]

4 hours ago, Nickkerkwijk said:

Is it me or does it look like the loft is not really added yet? Iirc if you go fast* in a Hornet and pull up the timer for release drops down fast, but it looks like the timer in the F15E doesnt work likt that yet

Calculated loft cues are not in beta yet.  Everything that folks are doing to loft is just a crude method of using a climbing angle and the traditional release cue.  The ESL will give you a loaded pull cue and will be more 'proper' for lofting.  

[Nealius]

13 hours ago, Nickkerkwijk said:

Is it me or does it look like the loft is not really added yet? Iirc if you go fast* in a Hornet and pull up the timer for release drops down fast, but it looks like the timer in the F15E doesnt work likt that yet

This is why I use direct mode instead if auto at the moment. 

[Amoksepp]

Am 16.12.2023 um 06:41 schrieb Nealius:

I've only gone up against SA-2s and -3s so far, but the fatter the bomb the more range you can get, so I go with GBU-31s. Direct mode instead of AUTO. 550-560kts on the deck, 4~4.5G pull at around 5.5nm, as soon as my pitch hits 35 degrees I toss and immediately peel off. At release I'm still at about 3,000ft AGL and 4.4nm from the target though. Not sure what my apex is since my head is looking at everything except the HUD at that point.

For SA-15s I'd just stay high and plink them.

 

I didn't try lofting yet, but in "regular" drops the SA-15 always kills the 2k pound bombs. You would need to overwhelm it with 3 or 4 of them. 

[Ignition]

5 hours ago, Amoksepp said:

I didn't try lofting yet, but in "regular" drops the SA-15 always kills the 2k pound bombs. You would need to overwhelm it with 3 or 4 of them. 

Maybe you're dropping them to high and far. At 5nm and M1, they are not able to intercept them.

[Amoksepp]

Am 23.12.2023 um 04:33 schrieb Ignition:

Maybe you're dropping them to high and far. At 5nm and M1, they are not able to intercept them.

At what altitude would you drop them in this scenario?

[Ignition]

10 minutes ago, Amoksepp said:

At what altitude would you drop them in this scenario?

In DCS I find the JDAMs lose a lot of speed if you try to loft them above 5-10º.

I drop the bombs at around 5nm with minimal pitch (around 5º), I don't know the altitude sorry since I never check because of defensive maneuvers but maybe 1.000ft, very high speed 750kts. The bombs arrive with a lot of energy and minimal time of flight. You need to use the trees for ingress-egress. The speed you carry helps a lot for the defensive egress, you need to take care of Gs!

If I have a mountain that I could use its great.

Yeah its dangerous but those bombs are deadly.

[Czar66]

Hope this helps but you'll need tweaking to defend against a Sa-15.

GBU-31
3nm at 450+kts > pull up towards 20° (moderately) while pressing the weapon release button. The key is not to get too high.
Crappy gif, I know.

I don't know about having a go against a Sa-15 with this although I defeated an HQ-7 missile. Likely a much more aggressive defensive maneuvers will be needed against Tors.

 

[durka-durka]

31 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Hope this helps but you'll need tweaking to defend against a Sa-15.

GBU-31
3nm at 450+kts > pull up towards 20° (moderately) while pressing the weapon release button. The key is not to get too high.
Crappy gif, I know.

I don't know about having a go against a Sa-15 with this although I defeated an HQ-7 missile. Likely a much more aggressive defensive maneuvers will be needed against Tors.

 

Quality post, my friend. Thank you!  I'll definitely want to adjust for the 15, but this is an excellent basis to work off of.

 

[_DK_]

My standard profile for tossing the GBU-38 is;

1. MAX AB at 15 nm latest

2. 3g pitch up to 30 degrees at 9 nm (entry speed ~mach 1)

3. Pickle when velocity vector hits 30 degrees (approx. 7.5 miles and 3,000 ft AGL)

The SA-15 will fire at you but you're so far away and fast, a 7.5 - 9 g break past the beam will kinematically defeat anything shot at you in return.

Here's an example of it in the Hornet, you can probably get more out the F-15E due to its kinematic superiority.
 

 

Edited January 11 by _DK_

[DD_fruitbat]

You can get away with a 10nm pull up in the F-15, and the SA-15 won't even fire. At 9nm the SA-15 will fire, but the advantage is the JDAM will reach terminal parameters, I don't think it quite does at 10nm, but was good enough for a hit in this example.

 

Edited January 14 by DD_fruitbat