DLSS "update"

[Fiztex]

58 минут назад, diamond26 сказал:

In my use case (Qpro and QV, 3080 12GB) I ended up using preset J and performance in DCS with full resolution in Quest and focus resolution 1.8 and peripheral 0.2 in QV settings. Unbelievable how the system manages clarity and performance with no obvious artifacts! It's like a got a new GPU  

My experience as well but with 4070S and Quest 3, MSAA is basically dead now for DCS. It has transformed the DCS experience (pun intended), new DLAA is excellent with quad views low resolution area denoising as even 0.2-0.25 peripheral multiplier with ultra clouds leads to zero noise which was always distracting previously when in the sky and as such making QV a compromise. Not anymore. Overall DLSS 4 has had a major positive impact on all main VR issues we had in DCS - clouds noise, performance vs image clarity, and even VRAM consumption. It indeed feels like upgrading the GPU by 1 or even 2 generations. IMO those who are still flying crazy PD and MSAA 4x are simply missing out. Yes, there are some artifacts, but they are a joke compared to what you are getting in return. The biggest noticeable one for me are the stars in the night sky, but I don't fly at night very often so I can easily live with that. And you can still see shimmering on fences when parked on the airfield, but again this is nothing compared to what it was like before.

Today I'll get the 4090 and see what I can squeeze out of it with new DLAA.

[sleighzy]

11 hours ago, diamond26 said:

One thing that needs attention when using the Global preset option from DLSSTweaks is that it's also set the percentage for DLSS quality levels (I believe it defaults to Quality setting 0.666). That means you cannot then change it in DCS settings to anything else.

So either you also set the preset and the quality level up front or use the old method of adding the dxgi.dll in bin folder so you can make the changes of DLSS quality levels at DCS level.

Is there a way to confirm that? (Possibly the hud overlay with a bit of maths on the render resolution and upscaled resolution?). The docs in the ini file indicate that you can override the quality ratios, but only if you also set the enable flag in the DLSSQualityLevels section to true (which would be if you were using the dxgi.dll wrapper vs the global preset override). This would imply it's using whatever the normal settings are unless you explicitly override yourself. Overriding the scaling for all can also be done globally. The GlobalForcedScale for me is 0 (which is disabled) so shouldn't be changing the scalings, of which you are correct, if that is not 0 then it will apply the scaling to all.

I see a difference in the image quality when changing between Quality and Performance in the DCS dropdown so it doesn't appear to have a fixed value.

Edited February 3 by sleighzy

[Qcumber]

12 hours ago, diamond26 said:

In my use case (Qpro and QV, 3080 12GB) I ended up using preset J and performance in DCS with full resolution in Quest and focus resolution 1.8 and peripheral 0.2 in QV settings.

When you say "full resolution in Quest" do you mean the slider in the app is pushed to the right? 

What size of centre Res are you using? A peripheral resolution of 0.2 sounds very low. Does it not look very pixelated? 

[Qcumber]

11 hours ago, Fiztex said:

My experience as well but with 4070S and Quest 3, MSAA is basically dead now for DCS. It has transformed the DCS experience (pun intended), new DLAA is excellent with quad views low resolution area denoising as even 0.2-0.25 peripheral multiplier with ultra clouds leads to zero noise which was always distracting previously when in the sky and as such making QV a compromise. Not anymore. Overall DLSS 4 has had a major positive impact on all main VR issues we had in DCS - clouds noise, performance vs image clarity, and even VRAM consumption. It indeed feels like upgrading the GPU by 1 or even 2 generations. IMO those who are still flying crazy PD and MSAA 4x are simply missing out. Yes, there are some artifacts, but they are a joke compared to what you are getting in return. The biggest noticeable one for me are the stars in the night sky, but I don't fly at night very often so I can easily live with that. And you can still see shimmering on fences when parked on the airfield, but again this is nothing compared to what it was like before.

Today I'll get the 4090 and see what I can squeeze out of it with new DLAA.

Yes, DLSS4 is a major step but there are some horrendous artifacts. The ghosting of planes against the ground is very bad. A stream if blurring. Spotting dots are hazy and the contrast of some objects against some backgrounds (particularly clouds) makes them difficult to see. For me the performance gain in VR with QVFR is negligible for DLSS performance compared to using MSAAx2. It does not feel like I suddenly have a 4080 or 4090. It still feels like I am using a 4070. 

[diamond26]

2 hours ago, Qcumber said:

When you say "full resolution in Quest" do you mean the slider in the app is pushed to the right? 

What size of centre Res are you using? A peripheral resolution of 0.2 sounds very low. Does it not look very pixelated? 

Yes I mean all the way to the right in meta app. Focus resolution is mentioned above at 1.8 with 0.4 x 0.4 size. Eye tracking doesn’t let me see any low resolution parts. The only place I see the low resolution is at video recordings or casting. In QV log I see 7.5 million pixels 

Edited February 3 by diamond26

[Bigity]

Preset K is even better than J for me.  Very nice.

[Fiztex]

9 часов назад, Qcumber сказал:

Yes, DLSS4 is a major step but there are some horrendous artifacts. The ghosting of planes against the ground is very bad. A stream if blurring. Spotting dots are hazy and the contrast of some objects against some backgrounds (particularly clouds) makes them difficult to see. For me the performance gain in VR with QVFR is negligible for DLSS performance compared to using MSAAx2. It does not feel like I suddenly have a 4080 or 4090. It still feels like I am using a 4070. 

There is zero blur with DLAA only, without DLSS, when using J/K. No issues with the spotting dots as well. You would still see some blur with old DLSS profiles though. I've got 4090 now and it allows me to run DLAA with excellent clarity and no artifacts what so ever at 80 Hz. Basically the difference between 4090 and 4070 now is no blur / blur, while the clarity will be almost identical.

Edited February 4 by Fiztex

[Qcumber]

38 minutes ago, Fiztex said:

There is zero blur with DLAA only, without DLSS, when using J/K. No issues with the spotting dots as well. You would still see some blur with old DLSS profiles though. I've got 4090 now and it allows me to run DLAA with excellent clarity and no artifacts what so ever at 80 Hz. Basically the difference between 4090 and 4070 now is no blur / blur, while the clarity will be almost identical.

I still see all the artifacts with DLAA. For me using DLAA has a bigger performance hit than using MSAA. Preset J and K. I am using 310.2 and latest NVIDIA driver.

I am also getting occasional CTDs with DLAA/DLSS. It appears to be when I get max GPU/VRAM use. Possibly VRAM overflow!? 

[Fiztex]

40 минут назад, Qcumber сказал:

I still see all the artifacts with DLAA. For me using DLAA has a bigger performance hit than using MSAA. Preset J and K. I am using 310.2 and latest NVIDIA driver.

I am also getting occasional CTDs with DLAA/DLSS. It appears to be when I get max GPU/VRAM use. Possibly VRAM overflow!? 

I don't think it's possible to run DLAA without artifacts on anything lower than a 4090, that's why I basically bought it last week. You need a higher refresh rate and quite a bit of supersampling to compensate for temporal artifacts to make them unnoticeable during gameplay. I tested with a fly by camera against the sky and the ground and there is maybe 1-2 pixel smearing only with DLAA K, but definitely long lines with DLSS and DCS default DLAA. To me MSAA noise is far more distracting than even DLSS smear and I would still prefer DLSS over MSAA. Only with DLAA I can actually reliably spot ground targets and not get distracted by MSAA noise, DLAA made me much more combat effective in DCS on the A10C. MSAA simply doesn't work with many objects in the game, even if you add MFAA and force transparency AA... On top DLAA allows aggressive QV profiles giving me 66% pixel reduction without noticeable periferal noise, and that makes it by far lighter than MSAA 4x.

Edited February 4 by Fiztex

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, Fiztex said:

I tested with a fly by camera against the sky and the ground and there is maybe 1-2 pixel smearing only with DLAA K, but definitely long lines with DLSS and DCS default DLAA

Interesting. I'll do some more testing. I wonder how the 50xx handles this. This is still early for DLSS4 so maybe it will improve for lower range GPUs. 

[Fiztex]

16 минут назад, Qcumber сказал:

Interesting. I'll do some more testing. I wonder how the 50xx handles this. This is still early for DLSS4 so maybe it will improve for lower range GPUs. 

I think 5090 is completely irrelevant now, at least for something like Quest 3. Until ED breaks something of course That if scaling of DCS performance works the same as it did for 30 vs 40 series, which I expect it will. One can't buy a 5090 anyway, so there is that as well. And 5080 is quite pointless since we are already having issues with 16 GB VRAM, and I can expect even DLSS 4 won't solve those completely though it definitely helps.

5090 might be interesting for those who are running much higher resolution VR displays and don't want to deal with smearing of DLSS. If they are ok to pay double for 30% extra.

Edited February 4 by Fiztex

[Qcumber]

1 minute ago, Fiztex said:

I think 5090 is completely irrelevant now, at least for something like Quest 3. Until ED breaks something of course That if scaling of DCS performance works the same as it did for 30 vs 40 series, which I expect it will. One can't buy a 5090 anyway, so there is that as well.

5090 might be interesting for those who are running much higher resolution VR displays and don't want to deal with smearing of DLSS. If they are ok to pay double for 30% extra.

I have been considering a 5080 or 5070ti but will wait for a) comparison reviews (3 weeks) and b) availability at MSRP (6 months!?). 

[Fiztex]

2 минуты назад, Qcumber сказал:

I have been considering a 5080 or 5070ti but will wait for a) comparison reviews (3 weeks) and b) availability at MSRP (6 months!?). 

If I was Nvidia I'd keep production of consumer GPU as low as possible to use my TSMC quota to run AI chips. They have no competition so they can do that easily and not loose anything. By giving people DLSS 4 they basically removed the need for upgrade anyway.

Edited February 4 by Fiztex

[Qcumber]

40 minutes ago, Fiztex said:

If I was Nvidia I'd keep production of consumer GPU as low as possible to use my TSMC quota to run AI chips. They have no competition so they can do that easily and not loose anything. By giving people DLSS 4 they basically removed the need for upgrade anyway.

DLSS is not enough of an "upgrade" at the moment. It gives me similar performance to using MSAAx2. The only real benefit for me is better AA. I am going to wait and see what the new AMD GPUs are like. Raw rasterisation performance over clever software. And see if DLSS improves. 

[diamond26]

5 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

DLSS is not enough of an "upgrade" at the moment. It gives me similar performance to using MSAAx2. The only real benefit for me is better AA. I am going to wait and see what the new AMD GPUs are like. Raw rasterisation performance over clever software. And see if DLSS improves. 

As it's always the case, everyone has a different view especially when it comes to VR. I'm really happy with what I get from the new DLSS in terms of clarity and performance. It will definitely not solve VRAM issues but it provides a better clarity and the option to run the system at DLLS/performance without loosing clarity. Also I don't get any noticeable artifacts.

[koen330]

Just tried the new DLSS in VR and I must say, I'm very happy with the J preset. I would say, a big improvement.

[Kovacs]

12 hours ago, koen330 said:

Just tried the new DLSS in VR and I must say, I'm very happy with the J preset. I would say, a big improvement.

Me too ! With a 4090, PICO 4, Virtual Desktop. 

[Mustang]

Just discovered an interesting thing, I was playing around with capping FPS and thought of trying locking my 60hz screen to 58hz with GSYNC and found that not only does the FPS feel no different but it has pretty much removed any traces of blurring/smearing with DLSS.

 

Edited February 5 by Mustang

[YoYo]

23 hours ago, Qcumber said:

DLSS is not enough of an "upgrade" at the moment.... 

Did you solve the CTD problem with DLSS 4? I remember you wrote that you have it quite often. And what method did you use? Manual installation of NVidia Inspector + files or just DLSS Sweaper?

[Qcumber]

26 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Did you solve the CTD problem with DLSS 4? I remember you wrote that you have it quite often. And what method did you use? Manual installation of NVidia Inspector + files or just DLSS Sweaper?

I thought I had resolved it. I did a complete repair if DCS and deleted all extra files. Factory reset of the headset. Manually replaced default nvngx_dlss.dll from 3.7 to 310.2. Reinstalled NVPI (revamped). Set preset to K. Everything worked fine for several.hours of testing with a max test time of about 20 mins. No CDTs.

Then I tried flying in the F4 from a busy airport hot start. Maxed out GPU and VRAM and CDT. I've not had chance to rest much further but I suspect for me it's some form of VRAM overflow (pure speculation at this stage). I need to do more testing but am away for a few days. 

 

[Fiztex]

7 часов назад, Qcumber сказал:

I thought I had resolved it. I did a complete repair if DCS and deleted all extra files. Factory reset of the headset. Manually replaced default nvngx_dlss.dll from 3.7 to 310.2. Reinstalled NVPI (revamped). Set preset to K. Everything worked fine for several.hours of testing with a max test time of about 20 mins. No CDTs.

Then I tried flying in the F4 from a busy airport hot start. Maxed out GPU and VRAM and CDT. I've not had chance to rest much further but I suspect for me it's some form of VRAM overflow (pure speculation at this stage). I need to do more testing but am away for a few days. 

Happened to me with Apache and 4070 Super with high textures as well, indeed very likely VRAM issue in your case. Easy to monitor with OXRTK and see if reducing cockpit textures helps. With new aircrafts you actuallly don't need the highest textures for VR, you won't see the diffrence at reasonable VR resolutions. Textures are waaay overkill, designed for a really high zooming with a 4K flat screen.

Edited February 5 by Fiztex

[Qcumber]

2 minutes ago, Fiztex said:

Happened to me with Apache and 4070 Super with high textures as well, indeed very likely VRAM issue in your case. Easy to monitor with OXRTK and see if reducing cockpit textures helps. With new aircrafts you actuallly don't need the highest textures for VR, you won't see the diffrence at reasonable VR resolutions. Textures are waaay overkil, designed for a really high zooming with a 4K flat screen.

Thanks. I'll try reducing textures. 

[Mustang]

Is there a way to toggle DLSS Auto Exposure On/Off via nVidia Profile Inspector? This is a nice feature from DLSSTweaks (which I cannot currently use with DCS)

 

edit: nevermind I finally figured out how to get DLSSTweaks to not crash anymore.

Edited February 6 by Mustang

[VietGirl]

Hi anyone know how to set DlssTweaks in OVGME, So I dont have to keep replacing the dll everytime their is a new update to DCS , thanks in advance .

[Arcc]

Hi

Sorry, i use an online translator...

I followed the tutorial   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKCMmAip_ZM&t=58s   to install DLSS .4

I have less flickering with the DLSS than without

Oh oh just to try... my DCS works well in DLAA

It is possible to delete the text at the bottom.

Best regards

Christian