Some unanswered questions about the F15

[mobile83]

Hello,
I'm writing about the F15 because I bought the module and I have 3 things that I don't understand

To start, I took an F15 with just two missiles without tank fuel and I raced at 40000ft with a mirage2000, I was surprised that the mirage 2000 was going faster than me, I couldn't figure out catch up he was going about 35 knots faster

1) Is it normal for a small single engine plane to go faster?

2) Then, when I shoot AIM C, the time to impact displayed in the HUD is really wrong by around 30% to 40% for certain shots. it's normal?

3) I wonder how the F15 will be able to perform in BVR without datalink and with less engine power than a Mirage 2000, it is not made for BVR? its only advantage that I currently see is being able to carry a lot of kerosene for long journeys

Can you give me its advantages for the BVR I can't see

THANKS

[Oldcrow Jr. 62]

Basically, the F15E is optimized for Ground Attack, Interdiction style missions. It is not a true Aerial Superiority Fighter. Missile systems are mainly for self defense and self escort purposes. Yes it carries a lot of fuel for long range missions, but in addition to that weight is the weight of the Aircraft it's self. So yes the Mirage probably is faster due to the fact that it is lighter, has less drag and is designed to go fast and be nimble Dog Fighter.

As for the Time to impact being off, a lot of factors are in play. One being range, second being relative speed between missile and the target. It is an estimate more or less of the calculated time to impact, not the actual time to impact. I've seen it off before also, but only in extreme maneuvering low PK shots.

So, in summary, it's not a BVR Fighter like the Tomcat or the F-15C. Rather it's a mud mover, however, it can hold it's own in BVR fights when necessary under certain circumstances. It is not a BVR stand-off weapons system.

 

[Tenkom]

Once it gets datalink it will be a formidable BVR plane.

With empty CFTs it will out accelerate a mirage 2000c. We must remember that it carries a ridiculous amount of fuel. A full F15E should be compared to a mirage with wing tanks really.

I just tested. 

A mirage at 40k will go from mach 1 to 1.5 in 2m 9s(4 missiles, full internal, no tanks)

F15E(8 amraams, empty CFTs full internal, no external tanks) 1m 56s

It can carry 8 of the best missiles in the game. It has the best radar in the game. Speed and acceleration is certainly competitive, if not among the very best. It has very good high altitude performance. 

It will certainly struggle in WVR. But they say it will get JHMCS and 9x and since it can turn pretty well for a little while it should still be dangerous since it can pull 9Gs hopefully long enough to get of a 9x.

[TheGhostOfDefi]

Soo

1.

Yes, since they are usually configured lighter. Thrust-to-weight ratio! You can go that path with the F-15 too... It's your choice how you equip your SE; you can go fast and "light," or carry two Suns and a Moon. (A single engine of our F-15 has 35 kN more thrust, and we have 2, thus about 70 kN more thrust in Max Power)

It just cannot be two things at the same time. See, the CFTs are basically the two outer fuel tanks of the F-15C, and if you take additional tanks with you, you need to think of it as an F-15C with 4 wing tanks... You wouldn't be mad being slow seeing a plane like that, would you?

Despite that, sure, there are different things that go into that like drag and all that, but as Tenkom stated, it CAN be faster!

 

2.

The first timer is the time the missile goes active. The second time shows its radar mode (no factor in DCS so far), and the estimated time to impact that can vary due to the fact that the enemy has a word to say in this as well!

 

3.

The F-15E is probably the BEST BVR fighter we have in-game! Strong radar, can go fast and high, and can carry a deadly loadout. (And big IFF ranges)

People tend to crave for the Data link, HMCS, and so on, but with all due respect: You are half an E-3 with that radar yourself!

You need to exercise this for sure, and the SA is not established as easily, but you can build a formidable SA yourself!

But that's kind of why the F-16 & F/A-18 are fighters in their manner and the F-15 is an air superiority fighter. That's a difference.

Further, I want to add that even the F-15E can stand its ground in WVR/ACM/Dogfight, however you want to call it. You are just not that good anymore as in the F-16, and you need to make some decisions more carefully. In the end, you got thrust and a Delta-Wing. (Personally, I like the stabilator layout)

 

To wrap up the topic: the F-15E needs more training and isn't that "beginner-friendly" as the 16/18. But hell, it's capable.

Small tip: Just because the F-15 can carry that much fuel, you should consider if you need that much.

[mobile83]

thank you for your answers

[Ignition]

On 1/6/2024 at 7:47 PM, Tenkom said:

Once it gets datalink it will be a formidable BVR plane.

With empty CFTs it will out accelerate a mirage 2000c. We must remember that it carries a ridiculous amount of fuel. A full F15E should be compared to a mirage with wing tanks really.

I just tested. 

A mirage at 40k will go from mach 1 to 1.5 in 2m 9s(4 missiles, full internal, no tanks)

F15E(8 amraams, empty CFTs full internal, no external tanks) 1m 56s

It can carry 8 of the best missiles in the game. It has the best radar in the game. Speed and acceleration is certainly competitive, if not among the very best. It has very good high altitude performance. 

It will certainly struggle in WVR. But they say it will get JHMCS and 9x and since it can turn pretty well for a little while it should still be dangerous since it can pull 9Gs hopefully long enough to get of a 9x.

Datalink will not change change the aircraft in BVR so much. I don't understand why so many people say this.

Datalink is useful for situational awareness, it will not change the F-15E on an intercept aircraft. It's not a bad BVR plane but it's not the best.
I see many people flying on PVP server arenas who want datalink, but the SIT page on the F-15E is much more than a display to see the enemy. You can evaluate and make many things through JTIDS.

[mobile83]

On a multiplayer server with lots of people (20 allied aircraft and 25 enemy aircraft, plus SAMs), you're going to have a situation on your radar by interrogating every 10 seconds to find out whether the contact is friendly or not, and in STT you can't even make an IFF on the contact, great, better radar? I don't think so at all.

To switch to TWS, you have to lock a target in stt or lock anything in the wild to switch to TWS, better radar?

The symbology isn't different enough between friend and foe and it's tiny, no zoom possible on the radar (f16 you can zoom to differentiate contacts), the radar has already lost the target easily, whereas the F16 has a mini TWS mode in rws, very simple to operate and which allows you to keep the lock easily.

So just go to any multiplayer server, the F15e has a lot of allied fire when you look at the stats, but when you know the plane you can forgive them, because frankly it's a mess when there are a lot of people on the radar, take the F16 the radar readability (without datalink) is excellent.

So yes, for me, the F15e, without datalink, is a horror to play on multiplayer servers with lots of people, or even pve, lots of people = impossible mess on the radar.

 

Sure, if you put 3 planes in the sky and only you, or if you put the enemies in the south and the allies in the north, it's pretty simple, but it doesn't represent the real BVR.

Edited January 8, 2024 by mobile83

[Tenkom]

5 hours ago, mobile83 said:

On a multiplayer server with lots of people (20 allied aircraft and 25 enemy aircraft, plus SAMs), you're going to have a situation on your radar by interrogating every 10 seconds to find out whether the contact is friendly or not, and in STT you can't even make an IFF on the contact, great, better radar? I don't think so at all.

To switch to TWS, you have to lock a target in stt or lock anything in the wild to switch to TWS, better radar?

The symbology isn't different enough between friend and foe and it's tiny, no zoom possible on the radar (f16 you can zoom to differentiate contacts), the radar has already lost the target easily, whereas the F16 has a mini TWS mode in rws, very simple to operate and which allows you to keep the lock easily.

So just go to any multiplayer server, the F15e has a lot of allied fire when you look at the stats, but when you know the plane you can forgive them, because frankly it's a mess when there are a lot of people on the radar, take the F16 the radar readability (without datalink) is excellent.

So yes, for me, the F15e, without datalink, is a horror to play on multiplayer servers with lots of people, or even pve, lots of people = impossible mess on the radar.

 

Sure, if you put 3 planes in the sky and only you, or if you put the enemies in the south and the allies in the north, it's pretty simple, but it doesn't represent the real BVR.

 

You can definitely IFF a STT target, after the latest update you can even have it done automatically. If the target is friendly the radar contact will blink, easy to spot.

You don't have to lock anything to enter TWS. You just push auto acq down and then immediately press forward or aft, depending on which TWS mode you want. No need to wait for it to lock.

If there is a cluster of planes you just enter TWS mode, lock them up(it does this automatically) and it will interrogate all of them for you. Friendlies turn into circles. Simple.

I've been flying the F15E since release and I've not had any problems with friendly fire. If the target is friendly the radar contact is blinking at you! If you still decide to fire that's on you.

Also a tip: After the recent update you can turn on automatic IFF interrogation on STT and PDT targets. 

 

[SharpeXB]

11 hours ago, mobile83 said:

So yes, for me, the F15e, without datalink, is a horror to play on multiplayer servers with lots of people, or even pve, lots of people = impossible mess on the radar.

Haha yeah. I had these two F-15E players accuse me of team killing one of them. Watching the track later they were nowhere near me. Basically they didn’t know where they were or who they were fighting. They were also shooting AIM-120s at ground targets

Edited January 8, 2024 by SharpeXB

[mobile83]

Yes in multiplayer I see all the f15E they are lost. There are too many
information on their radar and the Awack gives them a Bogey Dope every 10 seconds with a heading north then south then east. All HOT towards him and he turns in circles and is completely lost. 

It's all quite normal really. In datalink's current state, it's unbearable. 

razbam should give priority to datalink in the roadmap.

[Tenkom]

F16 without datalink:

F15E same picture:

Is the F16 really clearer? It can't even track the viggens properly at this range.

[Miro]

2 hours ago, mobile83 said:

Yes in multiplayer I see all the f15E they are lost. There are too many
information on their radar and the Awack gives them a Bogey Dope every 10 seconds with a heading north then south then east. All HOT towards him and he turns in circles and is completely lost. 

It's all quite normal really. In datalink's current state, it's unbearable. 

razbam should give priority to datalink in the roadmap.

Fully agreed razbam should give priority to datalink in the roadmap, without DL You got very limited SA. I spend many hours in F-16, after switching to F-15, I'm just blind on more populated servers, thanks to its powerful radar, it gives you advice ahead, but from the sides everyone will sneak up on you like a child.

[Ignition]

I see, it's more a problem of the pilot than a lack of datalink

You can build a lot of SA with TEWS, AWACS, Radar a wingman and common sense. But if you only fly on PVP airquake arenas with 40 aircrafts all of the same coalition and go alone like a cowboy, I can understand why you're not training that SA.

I don't know, that doesn't sound a like representation of real BVR to me.

[mobile83]

1 hour ago, Tenkom said:

F16 sans liaison de données :

F15E même image :

Le F16 est-il vraiment plus clair ? Il ne peut même pas suivre correctement les viggens à cette distance.

don't forget to press NORM at the top of the f16 radar and recompare the images and come back to say the same thing

58 minutes ago, Miro said:

Entièrement d'accord, Razbam devrait donner la priorité à la liaison de données dans la feuille de route, sans DL, vous avez une SA très limitée. Je passe de nombreuses heures en F-16, après être passé au F-15, je suis juste aveugle sur les serveurs plus peuplés, grâce à son radar puissant, il vous donne des conseils à l'avance, mais sur les côtés tout le monde se faufilera sur vous comme un enfant.

that's exactly it

20 minutes ago, Ignition said:

Je vois, c'est plus un problème de pilote qu'un manque de datalink

Vous pouvez construire beaucoup de SA avec TEWS, AWACS, Radar, un ailier et du bon sens. Mais si vous volez uniquement sur des arènes sismiques PVP avec 40 avions de la même coalition et que vous y allez seul comme un cowboy, je peux comprendre pourquoi vous n'entraînez pas ce SA.

Je ne sais pas, cela ne me semble pas être une représentation du vrai BVR.

In reality they have a datalink and will never go into combat with 15 people without a datalink, so an F15E in combat without a data link doesn't make sense at the moment.

[Tenkom]

2 hours ago, mobile83 said:

don't forget to press NORM at the top of the f16 radar and recompare the images and come back to say the same thing

 

Expand does help I admit but the f15 still has better IFF symbology.

[Rainmaker]

5 hours ago, mobile83 said:

don't forget to press NORM at the top of the f16 radar and recompare the images and come back to say the same thing

that's exactly it

In reality they have a datalink and will never go into combat with 15 people without a datalink, so an F15E in combat without a data link doesn't make sense at the moment.

You think the lack of datalink stops combat?  You’d be sadly mistaken.  The jet spent over 15 years of its life in combat without it.  Other jets went longer than that.  

Edited January 9, 2024 by Rainmaker

[zlm63682]

do you use AI mirage for testing?  AI has different aerodynamics with player aircraft. AI is like cheating and  AI mirage is the most cheated one among all the AI aircrafts, you should test the acceleration time by yourself sitting inside.